Deuteronomy 25:11-12
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24-01-2014, 06:13 PM
Deuteronomy 25:11-12
I've always wondered, and perhaps some ex-theologans can humour me for entertainments' sake.

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 states:

"If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity."

Now, which gentleman is she forbidden from assaulting? Is it her husband or his assailant? Why she should grab her husband by his genitals is beyond me, but this verse is still unclear to me.

Bonus question: Should I go and troll an apologists forum with this question?
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24-01-2014, 06:34 PM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
(24-01-2014 06:13 PM)Formaldehyde Wrote:  I've always wondered, and perhaps some ex-theologans can humour me for entertainments' sake.

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 states:

"If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity."

Now, which gentleman is she forbidden from assaulting? Is it her husband or his assailant? Why she should grab her husband by his genitals is beyond me, but this verse is still unclear to me.

Bonus question: Should I go and troll an apologists forum with this question?

smh. It seems quite clear to me. Let me try to break it down in such a way that a self-righteous atheist can understand.

Two Men Fighting, Lets Say A & B are fighting. So now, with your small mind, imagine that.

and the wife of one of them

There are two wives.... A2 and B2.

comes to rescue her husband from his assailant

OK, this could be A2 or B2 doesn't matter which one but we shall rename which ever one decides to help her husband out WIFE1.

and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts

Ok, two things. 1) It doesn't make sense that she would grab her husbands balls. 2) The last "him" mentioned is the assailant, which could be A or B depending upon which wife came over.

you shall cut off her hand.

This act was offensive because you could damage the testicles of the man causing him to not have children. You would have robbed his wife of kids and him from his posterity. This was a very serous offense in those days.
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24-01-2014, 07:00 PM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2014 07:06 PM by TheBear.)
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
It's not that complicated. The wife is instructed to grab the assailants balls in order to incapacitate him to some degree.


How effective that is in real-life situations remains in question. Imagine two grown men, kicking and a gouging in the mud and the blood and the beer, and the wife shows up. I can hear her now - "Hold still, damn it" Stop rolling around, and twisting and moving! I got to grab your balls! Big Grin
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24-01-2014, 07:27 PM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2014 08:01 PM by Formaldehyde.)
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
(24-01-2014 06:34 PM)anidominus Wrote:  smh. It seems quite clear to me. Let me try to break it down in such a way that a self-righteous atheist can understand.

Two Men Fighting, Lets Say A & B are fighting. So now, with your small mind, imagine that.

and the wife of one of them

There are two wives.... A2 and B2.

comes to rescue her husband from his assailant

OK, this could be A2 or B2 doesn't matter which one but we shall rename which ever one decides to help her husband out WIFE1.

and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts

Ok, two things. 1) It doesn't make sense that she would grab her husbands balls. 2) The last "him" mentioned is the assailant, which could be A or B depending upon which wife came over.

you shall cut off her hand.

This act was offensive because you could damage the testicles of the man causing him to not have children. You would have robbed his wife of kids and him from his posterity. This was a very serous offense in those days.

She might grab her husband by the balls because she's angry that he's fighting.

And while it might seem logical that she'd be grabbing his assailant by the balls, what is the penalty for a man grabbing another man by the balls when engaged in battle? And why is this scenario so specific? Why not just make it punishable to mutilate a man's genitals in any situation?

In your argument, you also forgot Deuteronomy 23:1 "No one who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the LORD"
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24-01-2014, 07:29 PM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
(24-01-2014 07:00 PM)TheBear Wrote:  It's not that complicated. The wife is instructed to grab the assailants balls in order to incapacitate him to some degree.


How effective that is in real-life situations remains in question. Imagine two grown men, kicking and a gouging in the mud and the blood and the beer, and the wife shows up. I can hear her now - "Hold still, damn it" Stop rolling around, and twisting and moving! I got to grab your balls! Big Grin

She's instructed NOT to grab him by the balls.

You wouldn't last very long in a fundamentalist society.
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24-01-2014, 07:44 PM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
(24-01-2014 06:34 PM)anidominus Wrote:  Ok, two things. 1) It doesn't make sense that she would grab her husbands balls. 2) The last "him" mentioned is the assailant, which could be A or B depending upon which wife came over.

you shall cut off her hand.

This act was offensive because you could damage the testicles of the man causing him to not have children. You would have robbed his wife of kids and him from his posterity. This was a very serous offense in those days.

Whereas nowadays it is nothing but a legal WWF wrestling move. No hand cutting necessary.

Doc
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24-01-2014, 07:44 PM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
I see this as a "women are property" standpoint. Women had no business interfering in men's business, and as she has offended her husband she must be taught a lesson. Since she's a woman she's too stupid to be dissuaded by a whipping so cutting off her hand is the only way.

I'm a cynic, btw.
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24-01-2014, 07:55 PM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
(24-01-2014 07:44 PM)natachan Wrote:  I see this as a "women are property" standpoint. Women had no business interfering in men's business, and as she has offended her husband she must be taught a lesson. Since she's a woman she's too stupid to be dissuaded by a whipping so cutting off her hand is the only way.

I'm a cynic, btw.

I see nothing cynical about assuming that misogyny played a part in any verse in the bible pertaining to women.

Also, lol @ "men's business". I choose to read that as a euphemism :-P
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24-01-2014, 07:59 PM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
God dammit! I unintentionally made a bad pun? I'm supposed to intend all my bad puns!
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24-01-2014, 08:21 PM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2014 08:52 PM by Dee.)
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
I would grab my husband by his metaphorical balls if he were in a fight. I would not address the other guy.

She would get death for addressing a man not her husband--Old Testament B.S. about women's behavior.

To grab her husband by the balls and drag him away is not the way an O.T woman should address her. She would be showing power over him; therefore, usurping his manhood / masculinity in public and in front of his enemy, therefore, mocking masculinity.

But this so much more; it's actually metaphor.
In a fight: public arena
Male genitalia: masculinity, patriarchy, pride, honor . . .
Wife: property, for fucking, washing, and cooking..

Now an O.T wife could caress / pump up his manhood in private, only in bed though, and after she has crawled under the cover from the foot (only way for her to approach the bed once her husband is in it) of the bed to the top of the bed; she must first pass his feet and ass before she reaches his head.

"If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." Orson Welles
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