Deuteronomy 25:11-12
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-01-2014, 09:19 AM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
(25-01-2014 08:57 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  If you're reading Deuteronomy hoping to get it to make sense and not be morally reprehensible, you're going to have a bad time.

If God did exist he should be put on trial for crimes against humanity based on the rules given in Deuteronomy alone. It makes Sharia law look gentle in comparison.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Elder Cunningham's post
25-01-2014, 10:44 AM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
(25-01-2014 09:19 AM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  If God did exist he should be put on trial for crimes against humanity based on the rules given in Deuteronomy alone. It makes Sharia law look gentle in comparison.
Not only humanity but God made everything.. therefore he's technically responsible for everything... there's no other polite way to look at it..

God made everything therefore he's responsible for everything.

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes IndianAtheist's post
25-01-2014, 01:14 PM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
(24-01-2014 06:13 PM)Formaldehyde Wrote:  I've always wondered, and perhaps some ex-theologans can humour me for entertainments' sake.

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 states:

"If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity."

Now, which gentleman is she forbidden from assaulting? Is it her husband or his assailant? Why she should grab her husband by his genitals is beyond me, but this verse is still unclear to me.

Bonus question: Should I go and troll an apologists forum with this question?
I appreciate your humor. I think you should troll an apologists forum with this question. Smile

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Alla's post
25-01-2014, 02:32 PM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
(25-01-2014 09:19 AM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  
(25-01-2014 08:57 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  If you're reading Deuteronomy hoping to get it to make sense and not be morally reprehensible, you're going to have a bad time.

If God did exist he should be put on trial for crimes against humanity based on the rules given in Deuteronomy alone. It makes Sharia law look gentle in comparison.

I don't know much about Islam, but I'm sure a good chunk of Sharia law comes from Deuteronomy, and related books. The Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible) are common to all three of the Abrahamic religions. Deuteronomy is one of those five (along with Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers).
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-01-2014, 05:36 PM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
(24-01-2014 07:27 PM)Formaldehyde Wrote:  
(24-01-2014 06:34 PM)anidominus Wrote:  smh. It seems quite clear to me. Let me try to break it down in such a way that a self-righteous atheist can understand.

Two Men Fighting, Lets Say A & B are fighting. So now, with your small mind, imagine that.

and the wife of one of them

There are two wives.... A2 and B2.

comes to rescue her husband from his assailant

OK, this could be A2 or B2 doesn't matter which one but we shall rename which ever one decides to help her husband out WIFE1.

and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts

Ok, two things. 1) It doesn't make sense that she would grab her husbands balls. 2) The last "him" mentioned is the assailant, which could be A or B depending upon which wife came over.

you shall cut off her hand.

This act was offensive because you could damage the testicles of the man causing him to not have children. You would have robbed his wife of kids and him from his posterity. This was a very serous offense in those days.

She might grab her husband by the balls because she's angry that he's fighting.

And while it might seem logical that she'd be grabbing his assailant by the balls, what is the penalty for a man grabbing another man by the balls when engaged in battle? And why is this scenario so specific? Why not just make it punishable to mutilate a man's genitals in any situation?

In your argument, you also forgot Deuteronomy 23:1 "No one who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the LORD"

She wouldn't do that for the reasons I specified. She could end his ability reproduce and hers as well because she wouldn't be allowed to divorce.

Probably the same thing, perhaps its because this was a common occurrence for women to do this.

We will never know. Its possible the women were originally put to death and God changed it to cutting off the hand thus reducing the punishment. God did not seek to change every little detail of the Jewish Culture. He only modified those customs he desired.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-01-2014, 05:39 PM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
(25-01-2014 05:37 AM)Vosur Wrote:  This is what docskeptic posted (he messed up the quote tags). Sleepy

(25-01-2014 05:23 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Anidominus,
If that is the reason for this law, why is not generalized? What if the man who is fighting reaches out and grabs his opponent's family jewels thereby destroying them? Would his hand deserve to be cut off? Why not make a general law saying "Thou shalt not touch another man's junk"?

Doc

It depends on the custom already in place. Like I told the other person. God may have only modified a custom that was already in place thus no need to mention the rest of the custom. He did that often.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-01-2014, 05:48 PM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
(25-01-2014 05:36 PM)anidominus Wrote:  
(24-01-2014 07:27 PM)Formaldehyde Wrote:  She might grab her husband by the balls because she's angry that he's fighting.

And while it might seem logical that she'd be grabbing his assailant by the balls, what is the penalty for a man grabbing another man by the balls when engaged in battle? And why is this scenario so specific? Why not just make it punishable to mutilate a man's genitals in any situation?

In your argument, you also forgot Deuteronomy 23:1 "No one who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the LORD"

She wouldn't do that for the reasons I specified. She could end his ability reproduce and hers as well because she wouldn't be allowed to divorce.

Probably the same thing, perhaps its because this was a common occurrence for women to do this.

We will never know. Its possible the women were originally put to death and God changed it to cutting off the hand thus reducing the punishment. God did not seek to change every little detail of the Jewish Culture. He only modified those customs he desired.

So the omniscient creator made the penalty for grabbing a man by the balls death, and couldn't foresee that this was going to be a problem, so then at some point decided to change it? And how did this change happen? Was it retrospective, such that his divine hand changed the ink on the scriptures so that it read to cut her hand off rather than kill her? Or did he get men to change the scriptures? If so where are the originals, I'm curious to see what else has been changed. It'd be handy if they kept records of these things back in those days, but I guess modern law hadn't been invented yet. Anyway, if he DID change it with his divine hand, then why do we now have so many versions of these scriptures? When is he going to choose to pull his divine finger out of his divine arse and homogenise the texts? Or was it never written down, like a few verbal drafts and before finally deciding to write these things down when he got them "perfect"? This must have been a very confusing time.

I'm trying to picture a period where women grabbing mens' balls was a huge problem. It must have been horrible! That said, if this was the case then this verse seems horribly topical, wouldn't you agree? I mean, for a book which is supposed to be timeless and stand true for all eternity, taking care of something which had become a bit of a fad at the time seems a bit short sighted.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-01-2014, 05:50 PM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
(25-01-2014 05:39 PM)anidominus Wrote:  
(25-01-2014 05:37 AM)Vosur Wrote:  This is what docskeptic posted (he messed up the quote tags). Sleepy

It depends on the custom already in place. Like I told the other person. God may have only modified a custom that was already in place thus no need to mention the rest of the custom. He did that often.

This seems to be something of a theme for our omniscient creator, doing things and then changing his mind. I wonder if deities suffer from Alzheimer's disease?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-01-2014, 06:06 PM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
(24-01-2014 07:55 PM)Formaldehyde Wrote:  
(24-01-2014 07:44 PM)natachan Wrote:  I see this as a "women are property" standpoint. Women had no business interfering in men's business, and as she has offended her husband she must be taught a lesson. Since she's a woman she's too stupid to be dissuaded by a whipping so cutting off her hand is the only way.

I'm a cynic, btw.

I see nothing cynical about assuming that misogyny played a part in any verse in the bible pertaining to women.

Also, lol @ "men's business". I choose to read that as a euphemism :-P

Ooops. Drunken reading. I guess Johnny Cash came to mind, (don't ask me how....probably alcohol related), and "A boy named Sue", just had to be tied in .... somehow. Big Grin



Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-01-2014, 06:13 PM
RE: Deuteronomy 25:11-12
(Oh shit. I quoted the wrong post!)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: