Did Adam and Eve commit Incest?
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02-05-2015, 08:32 AM
RE: Did Adam and Eve commit Incest?
(02-05-2015 08:14 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(02-05-2015 08:03 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  As I also think that it - honest discussion - will not happen, so this is moot point, but I am still not convinced. I think it is not merely about metaphors/hidding but also unwilingness to abandon vision of afterlife and belief that makes one feel better. After all one could believe in some kind of personalised god even if one disagree with church teaching or/and Bible.

So abandonig faith, or rather returning to natural state of unbelief is I think more about personal needs than horrible Bible verses. Though having say that, I certainly do not disagree with you, for your idea has merit and I can not be sure how others would react.

I don't think they would lose all of their members--I am sure some would still hold on and decide to keep believing despite hearing (in an honest light) what is really in the Bible. But I think if the entire Bible was actually read by church members and it was viewed in a scholarly (and not spun) way--church numbers would decrease dramatically.

I am aware that you didn't say that church would not lose all members. I'm however thinking that they would not lose many, for I think faith is more about personal needs and indoctination than anything written in Bible. But the who knows?

Little example from Poland - 95% Poles consider themselves catholics yet only 70% believe in heaven, nearly one third believe in reincarnation, 42% believe in animals having souls; these are not biblical beliefs. About 50% is pro choice, more speaks in favor of in vitro while church is against both. Considering that one could think that these so called believrs wouldn't care about Bible, for to them faith isn't about it, rather about moral superiority and taking from doctrine whatever fits their needs.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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02-05-2015, 08:37 AM
RE: Did Adam and Eve commit Incest?
(02-05-2015 08:32 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Considering that one could think that these so called believrs wouldn't care about Bible, for to them faith isn't about it, rather about moral superiority and taking from doctrine whatever fits their needs.

They could also be 'secular Catholics' who see it more as a cultural heritage like many secular Jews do, and leave a lot of the stupid bullshit at the door. It can also be a source of community, or seen as one of the legacies of the Catholic's fight against the Communists.

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02-05-2015, 08:42 AM
RE: Did Adam and Eve commit Incest?
Here's a thought I just had. Believes would say God had sex with Mary to have Jesus. They also say Jesus was God. So would it be extreame to say that Jesus had sex with his mother to give birth to himself?

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02-05-2015, 08:48 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2015 08:54 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Did Adam and Eve commit Incest?
(02-05-2015 08:37 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(02-05-2015 08:32 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Considering that one could think that these so called believrs wouldn't care about Bible, for to them faith isn't about it, rather about moral superiority and taking from doctrine whatever fits their needs.

They could also be 'secular Catholics' who see it more as a cultural heritage like many secular Jews do, and leave a lot of the stupid bullshit at the door. It can also be a source of community, or seen as one of the legacies of the Catholic's fight against the Communists.

It is more in vein of - "I believe (in something) therefore I am better than you", and "Genocide? What genocide? Ah, the flood. He sure have his reasons, and who are you, you filthy Communist to question God"?

And certainly, church supposed (as clergy weren't really oppressed in Poland People Republic, at least not after 1956) fight with Communist work in it's favor.

(02-05-2015 08:42 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  Here's a thought I just had. Believes would say God had sex with Mary to have Jesus. They also say Jesus was God. So would it be extreame to say that Jesus had sex with his mother to give birth to himself?

It's a great mystery of faith. And Jesus certainly would think that you crossed the line with such question Wink

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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02-05-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: Did Adam and Eve commit Incest?
Adam and Eve were two full grown adults with no education and lacked the ability to know right from wrong.

Sounds like a formula for success

And those perfect genes they had wouldn't contain any genetic material borrowed from retro viruses.
Eve wouldn't be a placental mammal.

In fact , given that all of our genetic makeup comes from all of our animal ancestors, I have trouble imagining what they would even look like. It certainly wouldn't look human.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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02-05-2015, 09:52 AM
RE: Did Adam and Eve commit Incest?
Let's not forget gods original plan. Was this its first failure?



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02-05-2015, 07:25 PM
RE: Did Adam and Eve commit Incest?
(02-05-2015 06:13 AM)Nurse Wrote:  
(02-05-2015 05:33 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  The Nephilim is a higher level of stupidity of this god. Why did YHWH make angels with dicks? Why did he make them with functional sexual reproduction systems that were genetically compatible enough with humans to actually produce super-humans. WTF YHWH??

I'm sure hilarity and facepalms would ensue if you tried to pin down an explanation from a believer for the OBVIOUS intent of YHWH making angels capable of sexual reproduction with humans. So what was his plan for this stupidity? Laughat

Because it was in His plan that one day there would be Goliath...and that Daniel would kill him with a slingshot, giving hope to underdogs for generations to come. As well as inspire really annoying songs for young children to keep them wildly entertained.

But wouldn't the flood have wiped out the Nephilim? Consider

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The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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03-05-2015, 02:01 AM
RE: Did Adam and Eve commit Incest?
(02-05-2015 07:25 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(02-05-2015 06:13 AM)Nurse Wrote:  Because it was in His plan that one day there would be Goliath...and that Daniel would kill him with a slingshot, giving hope to underdogs for generations to come. As well as inspire really annoying songs for young children to keep them wildly entertained.

But wouldn't the flood have wiped out the Nephilim? Consider

I think it did, but Goliath either had plot armor or wasn't born yet. If second is "true" then we have another problem, but making giant so he could serve as plot device isn't a problem to someone who created entire world Wink

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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03-05-2015, 02:07 AM
RE: Did Adam and Eve commit Incest?
(02-05-2015 07:25 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  But wouldn't the flood have wiped out the Nephilim? Consider

Haven't you played Diablo III? The Nephilim is alive and well, bruh.

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03-05-2015, 06:03 AM
RE: Did Adam and Eve commit Incest?
(02-05-2015 07:25 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(02-05-2015 06:13 AM)Nurse Wrote:  Because it was in His plan that one day there would be Goliath...and that Daniel would kill him with a slingshot, giving hope to underdogs for generations to come. As well as inspire really annoying songs for young children to keep them wildly entertained.

But wouldn't the flood have wiped out the Nephilim? Consider

The bible even implies; and you see it crop up on apologist sites, that the Nephilim were part of the reason god sent the flood, but there they are, referenced in the bible before and after the flood. Facepalm

I guess Noah took them on the ark? FacepalmFacepalm

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