Did America loose the cold war with a 20 year delay?
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06-06-2013, 10:45 PM (This post was last modified: 06-06-2013 11:00 PM by ridethespiral.)
Did America loose the cold war with a 20 year delay?
I don't suppose to say that the Soviet Union won the cold war. What I mean to ask is did the US set in motion it's own demise in paranoid response to Russian expansionism in Europe and Asia post WWII? ...but that doesn't sound nearly as provocative.

I feel a connection can be drawn to our current issues and not only cold war foreign policy measures like the Truman doctrine and the Wolfowitz doctrine but even more so to an increasingly clandestine government fostered by compartmentalization and information restriction coupled with the creation and eventual corruption and miss-use of the CIA/NSA.

The Truman doctrine and Wolfowitz doctrines not only create dependence on banking as they are both tremendous expenditures but also allow for interference in the affairs of resource rich and strategically placed nations serving corporate interests abroad while simultaneously generating cash flow for the military industrial complex. Established for use against the soviet military machine by Truman who wished to bolster Europe against Russia and secure Asian thereafter they are used to manipulate affairs and elections in resource rich/strategic nations long after the cold war (Panama in 91, Iraq in 92 and 05...) and justify drone killings and weapons dealing (Syria, Israel). It is the Wolfowitz doctrine that turns the once beneficial CIA into a dangerous weapon when it is sharpened for use as a spy agency.

The CIA begins as a bengin intelligence agency but is ultimately wielded as a weapon against not only foreign nations but the government itself once need to know information policies and self-reporting/evaluation break apart the agencies integrity. The true impact of the CIA is shrouded in secrecy but I have no doubt that it in conjunction with the FBI and NSA played an integral role in manipulating domestic policy in favor of the most powerful few, being a completely autonomous agency with a clandestine mode of operation and little accountability.

It is the restriction and control of information originally implemented as a matter of security in the nuclear age when coupled with the free market and bureaucracy that open the floodgates for monied interests to pull strings. The ruthless clanking of an unchecked market (consolidate, consolidate, consolidate) meets good ol' divide and conquer. Originally a way to keep enemies from infiltrating government and gathering high level information instead it has allowed multi-national corporate interests to buy lower level government whenever it suits them...which in conjunction with media control/consolidation and Citizens United has completely undermined democracy.

Of course hindsight is 20/20 to the extent that the sources themselves are true. I'm not even saying that Truman played his hand wrong, given the same cards I might have placed similar bets myself, but I am saying that in a post soviet world that moves at digital speed isn't it time we roll back this stuff? Should we not be thinking in a more isolationist manner? Should we not shore up our chains of accountability and information? Shouldn't we restore transparency? Why should we waste precious few resources fighting a ghost, protecting ourselves from an enemy that will never come? I feel that abandoning cold war policies would be a bi-partistan step in the right direction for the ol' US of A.

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06-06-2013, 11:06 PM
RE: Did America loose the cold war with a 20 year delay?
(06-06-2013 10:45 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  ~coupled with the creation and eventual corruption and miss-use of the CIA/NSA.

LaughatLaughatLaughat

Things are going according to plan. Government is working exactly the way the people who call themselves government want it to work.


And I would like to add.... wars are not won. There are only degrees of loss.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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07-06-2013, 01:40 AM
RE: Did America loose the cold war with a 20 year delay?
No, they won.

Simply put:

And now the wall is down
The marxist frown
There's foreign shops all over town

While in Red Square
Now don't despair
There's Levi's and McDonald's there.

The US gave us Crystal Meth
And Yeltsin drank himself to death

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Eternal Pragmatist.
With the uncanny ability to see all sides in every argument.
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07-06-2013, 03:05 AM
RE: Did America loose the cold war with a 20 year delay?
(07-06-2013 01:40 AM)Caveman Wrote:  No, they won.

Simply put:

And now the wall is down
The marxist frown
There's foreign shops all over town

While in Red Square
Now don't despair
There's Levi's and McDonald's there.

The US gave us Crystal Meth
And Yeltsin drank himself to death


Still got that one stuck in your head huh Smile

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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07-06-2013, 03:43 AM
RE: Did America loose the cold war with a 20 year delay?
(07-06-2013 03:05 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(07-06-2013 01:40 AM)Caveman Wrote:  No, they won.

Simply put:

And now the wall is down
The marxist frown
There's foreign shops all over town

While in Red Square
Now don't despair
There's Levi's and McDonald's there.

The US gave us Crystal Meth
And Yeltsin drank himself to death


Still got that one stuck in your head huh Smile

Oh yes, it's a keeper.

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Eternal Pragmatist.
With the uncanny ability to see all sides in every argument.
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08-06-2013, 02:10 PM
RE: Did America loose the cold war with a 20 year delay?
Someone once told me that external pressure makes a group stronger. If you want to split up people, just sit back and let internal strife tear them apart.

It may very well be that without an enemy to keep the States together, America is tearing at the seams.
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08-06-2013, 06:50 PM (This post was last modified: 09-06-2013 12:42 PM by ridethespiral.)
RE: Did America loose the cold war with a 20 year delay?
(08-06-2013 02:10 PM)Lunda Wrote:  Someone once told me that external pressure makes a group stronger. If you want to split up people, just sit back and let internal strife tear them apart.

It may very well be that without an enemy to keep the States together, America is tearing at the seams.

I never really thought about it like that, without a serious external threat we turn against ourselves and squabble. I don't think that makes my point invalid though and in fact I think it might strengthen it. In the midst of a real threat you could run a compartmentalized accountability nightmare of a bureaucracy and get away with so long as everyone kept their heads down and remained scared shitless of being nuked into the stone age...once that threat recedes you are left with the consequences of your structural changes which held up under pressure but fail in a vacuum, coupled with a lack of morral and non-personal motivation.

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08-06-2013, 08:42 PM
RE: Did America loose the cold war with a 20 year delay?
(08-06-2013 02:10 PM)Lunda Wrote:  Someone once told me that external pressure makes a group stronger. If you want to split up people, just sit back and let internal strife tear them apart.

It may very well be that without an enemy to keep the States together, America is tearing at the seams.

Someone was correct. And the threat doesn't have to be real, just the enemy.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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