Did Hitler win?
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10-11-2014, 02:44 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
All,

I walk in miracles and among people who do the same. That's why you hear those "Praise the Lord!" statements in a "true" church.

Millions of German Christians did despicable things by heading their heads in the sand, yes. Chas is confusing foreswearing all for the Nazi butchers, however, except allegiance to the Fuehrer as messiah and god and king with being a Bible-believing, Jesus-worshipping Christian, which is an inexcusable mistake and is merely his choosing to be obstinate IMO. I'm not trying to make an ad hominem argument here or insult Chas, but it is ridiculous to say the boot-licking, Hitler-worshipping deviants in the camps and who committed wartime atrocities on the front were lovers of Jesus who was a JEW. Atheist, please!

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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10-11-2014, 02:55 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(01-10-2014 01:46 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Did Hitler win? The God inspired Nazi belt buckles translates "God is With US"

[Image: gottMitUns.png]

To be fair "Gott Mit Uns" was around long before the Nazis.

And to be fair, certain forms of eugenics are good. Obviously not the government mandated genocide racial stuff, but I believe in the future it will be possible for parents to genetically enhance their children before they are born.

And did Hitler win? I'm not sure, usually the winners aren't the ones who shoot themselves. Did Hitler win the abortion debate? If you read here you will see that Hitler supported the death penalty for abortion, so it seems he lost that battle as well.

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10-11-2014, 03:01 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(06-11-2014 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If you adhere to the end of Mark as a valid passage, real Christians do healings and miracles.

No one has ever reliably demonstrated this. If this is your benchmark, it's entirely possible there are no Christians.


(06-11-2014 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  One of the problems is that you may have met many people who... "hold to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; avoid such men as these." - 2 Timothy 3:5, --that is, anemic "Christians".

And, as I've been saying, each sect has a differing opinion on what it is to be a "true" Christian or to bear "false doctrine" or however else you want to word it. No one person or group has been able to successfully define "true" Christianity in such a way that another person or group couldn't refute it using scriptures.


(06-11-2014 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Hitler didn't do miracles or healings, he didn't pray in Jesus's name.

How do you know this?


(06-11-2014 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  jospeh Goebbles even blasphemed and said in a broadcast on 19 April 1936, that "Germany has been transformed into a great house of the Lord where the Fuhrer as our mediator stands before the throne of God." The Bible says the sole God-man mediator is Jesus Christ.

We weren't talking about Goebbles, so it doesn't matter whether or not he's a "true" Christian. You're shifting the goal posts.


(06-11-2014 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The best we can say is that Hitler headed some kind of wacko Christian cult. You can see he was a "Positivist Christian", but even Wikipedia recognizes that:

Agreed. I'd also consider Mormonism to be a wacky Christian cult, but I'd also still consider Mormons to be nominally Christian. They "follow Christ".
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10-11-2014, 03:04 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(06-11-2014 02:11 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 11:08 AM)Chas Wrote:  Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Self-professed Christians committed heinous acts. You say they couldn't really be Christians. That is the very model of the No True Scotsman Fallacy.

Just stop - you appear more stupid each time you post.

Not at all. Several of you made a de facto definition of Christianity here, that a Christian is one who is self-professed. Obviously you think being a Christian is a conscious choice and not a birthright or for toddlers who cannot conceive certain concepts.

But I've also been accused on this forum several times of not being what I am self-professed to be! If you continue with the self-profession line of reasoning, you will move eventually into what sounds like magical thinking to me. Is a man who self-professes to be the reincarnation of Socrates or Plato, Socrates or Plato? Atheists don't believe in magical thinking or the power of positive thinking, do they?
Claiming to be Plato is an extraordinary claim. Claiming to be a Christian is not.
Its like when a guy tells me he has a brown dog. I've seen dogs. I've seen brown dogs and I've known people who have owned dogs. There is no reason to assume the person is lying or delusional. If the same guy told me however that he has a 70 ft translucent unicorn I'm likely to question his integrity or sanity...
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10-11-2014, 03:23 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(10-11-2014 02:44 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I walk in miracles and among people who do the same.

Huh. I mean, you'd think with all those miracles going on there'd be a single credible shred of external evidence, instead of, you know, nothing remotely compelling in all of human history.

(10-11-2014 02:44 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Millions of German Christians did despicable things by heading their heads in the sand, yes. Chas is confusing foreswearing all for the Nazi butchers, however, except allegiance to the Fuehrer as messiah and god and king with being a Bible-believing, Jesus-worshipping Christian, which is an inexcusable mistake and is merely his choosing to be obstinate IMO. I'm not trying to make an ad hominem argument here or insult Chas, but it is ridiculous to say the boot-licking, Hitler-worshipping deviants in the camps and who committed wartime atrocities on the front were lovers of Jesus who was a JEW. Atheist, please!

"It bothers me that other Christians do bad things, therefore they are not Christians. Cognitive dissonance: maintained. Checkmate, atheists!"

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10-11-2014, 04:43 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(10-11-2014 02:44 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

I walk in miracles and among people who do the same. That's why you hear those "Praise the Lord!" statements in a "true" church.

Millions of German Christians did despicable things by heading their heads in the sand, yes. Chas is confusing foreswearing all for the Nazi butchers, however, except allegiance to the Fuehrer as messiah and god and king with being a Bible-believing, Jesus-worshipping Christian, which is an inexcusable mistake and is merely his choosing to be obstinate IMO. I'm not trying to make an ad hominem argument here or insult Chas, but it is ridiculous to say the boot-licking, Hitler-worshipping deviants in the camps and who committed wartime atrocities on the front were lovers of Jesus who was a JEW. Atheist, please!

They identified themselves Christians; your opinion is your opinion.

I'm not being obstinate, I'm being right. Carry on with your No True Scotsman Fallacy. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-11-2014, 02:59 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(10-11-2014 03:01 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(06-11-2014 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If you adhere to the end of Mark as a valid passage, real Christians do healings and miracles.

No one has ever reliably demonstrated this. If this is your benchmark, it's entirely possible there are no Christians.


(06-11-2014 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  One of the problems is that you may have met many people who... "hold to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; avoid such men as these." - 2 Timothy 3:5, --that is, anemic "Christians".

And, as I've been saying, each sect has a differing opinion on what it is to be a "true" Christian or to bear "false doctrine" or however else you want to word it. No one person or group has been able to successfully define "true" Christianity in such a way that another person or group couldn't refute it using scriptures.


(06-11-2014 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Hitler didn't do miracles or healings, he didn't pray in Jesus's name.

How do you know this?


(06-11-2014 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  jospeh Goebbles even blasphemed and said in a broadcast on 19 April 1936, that "Germany has been transformed into a great house of the Lord where the Fuhrer as our mediator stands before the throne of God." The Bible says the sole God-man mediator is Jesus Christ.

We weren't talking about Goebbles, so it doesn't matter whether or not he's a "true" Christian. You're shifting the goal posts.


(06-11-2014 02:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The best we can say is that Hitler headed some kind of wacko Christian cult. You can see he was a "Positivist Christian", but even Wikipedia recognizes that:

Agreed. I'd also consider Mormonism to be a wacky Christian cult, but I'd also still consider Mormons to be nominally Christian. They "follow Christ".

Of course sects in dispute use the Bible as opposed to say, the Koran. It is a fallacy, however, to say that because people oppose on a given interpretation, eg Jesus rose from the dead per the scriptures or He didn't per the scriptures, that both are inaccurate interpretations of the scriptures. I find that all atheists on this forum agree that the Bible says Jesus rose from the dead, there is discussion as to whether this was an insertion of Paul's...

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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12-11-2014, 06:59 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(12-11-2014 02:59 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 03:01 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  No one has ever reliably demonstrated this. If this is your benchmark, it's entirely possible there are no Christians.



And, as I've been saying, each sect has a differing opinion on what it is to be a "true" Christian or to bear "false doctrine" or however else you want to word it. No one person or group has been able to successfully define "true" Christianity in such a way that another person or group couldn't refute it using scriptures.



How do you know this?



We weren't talking about Goebbles, so it doesn't matter whether or not he's a "true" Christian. You're shifting the goal posts.



Agreed. I'd also consider Mormonism to be a wacky Christian cult, but I'd also still consider Mormons to be nominally Christian. They "follow Christ".

Of course sects in dispute use the Bible as opposed to say, the Koran. It is a fallacy, however, to say that because people oppose on a given interpretation, eg Jesus rose from the dead per the scriptures or He didn't per the scriptures, that both are inaccurate interpretations of the scriptures. I find that all atheists on this forum agree that the Bible says Jesus rose from the dead, there is discussion as to whether this was an insertion of Paul's...

It's not that both are inaccurate, it makes saying one is inaccurate over the other incredulous unless there is superior evidence that represents the that it must be the case the one view is right while the other is wrong.

And by justification of interpretation, you could argue whether it does say Jesus "rose" from the dead.

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13-11-2014, 08:03 AM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(12-11-2014 02:59 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  It is a fallacy, however, to say that because people oppose on a given interpretation, eg Jesus rose from the dead per the scriptures or He didn't per the scriptures, that both are inaccurate interpretations of the scriptures.

True. That's why I've said before that when the Bible says both A and !A, you're dealing with the principle of explosion, and people will pull whatever interpretation they want from it. I'm not talking about saying if it says A then it can't say !A. I've never said that. In fact, I've said that in this very thread, when talking about you committing the No True Scotsman fallacy. You're arguing against things I didn't say to try to wiggle out of the NTS you committed here a while ago while adamantly claiming you didn't.
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13-11-2014, 02:32 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(13-11-2014 08:03 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(12-11-2014 02:59 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  It is a fallacy, however, to say that because people oppose on a given interpretation, eg Jesus rose from the dead per the scriptures or He didn't per the scriptures, that both are inaccurate interpretations of the scriptures.

True. That's why I've said before that when the Bible says both A and !A, you're dealing with the principle of explosion, and people will pull whatever interpretation they want from it. I'm not talking about saying if it says A then it can't say !A. I've never said that. In fact, I've said that in this very thread, when talking about you committing the No True Scotsman fallacy. You're arguing against things I didn't say to try to wiggle out of the NTS you committed here a while ago while adamantly claiming you didn't.

I certainly understand your point except that it's your interpretation on any given doctrine that the Bible says both A and !A, and I read a univocal Bible without A and !A on doctrine, which is my interpretation. We have two different interpretations and yours cannot be correct de facto nor can mine. I've spent years in hermeneutics and apologetics specifically to look at doctrines and "contradictions". I know you've done the same. But you are still interpreting the scriptures here as you deny me the opportunity to interpret them differently, right? Wrong?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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