Did Hitler win?
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25-11-2014, 03:33 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(25-11-2014 03:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 03:24 PM)cjlr Wrote:  O rly?

These "miracles" you speak of; are they, perhaps, of that singular mysterious kind that only ever occur in the testimony of the credulous, without direct confirmation, or indeed any reliable external evidence whatsoever?

I wonder why that is.

And then he can explain how they were any different from all the other miracles all the other miracle workers were thought to be doing at the time, and why any report from a population that was 5% literate should be given any credibility anyway.
Angel

I could, but if I was answering YOU then you would be de facto reneging on your assertion that we were using the wrong DEFINTION of miracles.

Pick one and stick to it, please.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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25-11-2014, 03:35 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(25-11-2014 03:30 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 03:28 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I really hope you're not serious with that tripe.

Were you genuinely trying to make the, ah, "argument" that, because there once was a person who professed insincere Christianity that all people who profess Christianity and disagree with you are therefore insincere?

Even you I would give slightly more credit than that. You then remain completely unable to account for those who actively disagree with you and your ilk on fundamental theological questions and yet see themselves as devoted and devout true believing Christians.

That's the tortured pretzel logic of a True Believer™ for you, I guess...

I was being facetious. Sorry about that.

In which case the latter holds regardless.

You are in no position to dismiss the personal experience of others solely by virtue of your own personal experience. Whoops!

Guess you can't say who's a True Christian™ after all.

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25-11-2014, 03:36 PM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2014 10:59 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Did Hitler win?
(25-11-2014 03:33 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 03:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  And then he can explain how they were any different from all the other miracles all the other miracle workers were thought to be doing at the time, and why any report from a population that was 5% literate should be given any credibility anyway.
Angel

I could, but if I was answering YOU then you would be de facto reneging on your assertion that we were using the wrong DEFINTION of miracles.

Pick one and stick to it, please.

Not at all. What were *seen* to be miracles were all natural events.
By all means ("I could", just like you "could discuss Greek" ... hahahahaha, sure you could, uh-huh)
go ahead. Facepalm

(Methinks this one doth bluster a tad too much).
I was wondering why someone would represent them-self as the Q, unless he actually was suffering also from :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%...ger_effect

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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25-11-2014, 03:40 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(25-11-2014 03:32 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  And yes, I don't HAVE to decide Criterion X but STILL await any atheist even ATTEMPTING to decide Criterion X.

Not only you don't have to, you *can't*, and neither can I. Neither of us controls language consensus. Criterion X is the dictionary definition. Which dictionary is not *prescriptive* but *descriptive*.

You raised the issue that there are multiple dictionary definitions... that's fine too. If Person P satisfies one of them, then he's a Christian. End of story.

You *are* free to say the following:
"In my personal opinion, true Christians are those who..." and tack on as much as you like.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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25-11-2014, 03:45 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(25-11-2014 02:56 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  On a level playing field, all I have and you have are claims of both a resurrection and then a bodily resurrection. Sure. I'd still point out the necessity of a claim in the "original" Mark as an apologetic for an empty tomb that had been guarded by Romans soldiers.

A claim is meaningless without evidence. I can claim that the President of the United States came to my house for dinner last night too, but that does nothing for establishing whether it's true.

(25-11-2014 02:56 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  And then at some point, everything's a claim. Like the claims of atheists that prayer doesn't work because they sincerely tried it. And my claims that Christians are here to witness to atheist because God remembers those prayers!

Yes, to you, atheist claims of prayer not working are just claims because you weren't there. However, your claim about Christians is more than just a claim. It's also a belief. And no, not everything is a claim. Many things have evidence or even proof.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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25-11-2014, 06:49 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(25-11-2014 03:11 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  At least now, finally, we are on the issue. In my opinion, a true Christian is born again, does miracles and doesn't murder people. But that opinion is informed by the Bible. Just because a Nazi claims to be biblical doesn't mean he IS biblical. Put another way, I claim to have an opinion--that is correct!

Being a true Christian, I can even--sometimes--tell when one isn't a true Christian. Or put another way, it's really obnoxious, not just uninformed, for non-Christians to tell Christians what makes a Christian! But they do it ALL THE TIME to salve their consciences.

So, you're admitting that you cannot prove your personal rubric for determining the "true" Christians? Do you understand why anyone else with a differing opinion may find yours wrong, despite the fact that they, too, cannot prove theirs correct?

The problem is, the benchmarks you are using are nonfalsifiable, so it's impossible to prove whether or not your opinion is even correct. If you can't demonstrate why you're right, then you're arbitrarily deciding who is and isn't Christian on a hunch.


(25-11-2014 03:11 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  So how about you call an NTS on Bucky? BE CONSISTENT.

I haven't been reading Bucky's posts because we weren't addressing each other. I've been reading your posts.
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25-11-2014, 07:01 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(25-11-2014 03:32 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Imagine how I felt as a new Christian, hearing about the Nazi "Christians" and then discovering in the Bible to love your neighbor as yourself, turn the other cheek, not to murder or one shows on has not the Spirit of God, etc. The Bible comes before the Nazis and is not making post facto judgments OF the Nazi butchers.

Really ? You ran around committing murders before you read your Babble ?
How could the Babble, written before National Socialism, make post-facto judgements of the Nazis ?
Now, about that Dementia ...

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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25-11-2014, 08:48 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(25-11-2014 03:32 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 03:28 PM)morondog Wrote:  You can question their motives, but who are you to say whether they are or are not Christians? It is *not* you who gets to decide, not me either. I personally take it that if someone calls themselves a Christian that's good enough for me, but to be strict, you could say for example that someone who called themselves a Christian and then violated the common usage of the term (e.g. by worshiping Donald Duck instead of Jesus) is *not* a Christian.

Look, you're taking a population and you're dividing them into Christians and non-Christians using a criterion X. If a person does not satisfy criterion X then you can say that they are not a Christian, but if a person satisfies X, that's it. You can't then post-facto decide that you don't like them and pretend that they have to satisfy criterion Y as well in order to be Christian.

And the whole point of this discussion is that *you* don't get to decide criterion X. It is pre-existing, as the agreed consensus definition, which you do not control.

I agree--NTS is about making a post facto criterion. Imagine how I felt as a new Christian, hearing about the Nazi "Christians" and then discovering in the Bible to love your neighbor as yourself, turn the other cheek, not to murder or one shows on has not the Spirit of God, etc. The Bible comes before the Nazis and is not making post facto judgments OF the Nazi butchers.

And yes, I don't HAVE to decide Criterion X but STILL await any atheist even ATTEMPTING to decide Criterion X.

And the Bible itself comes before the parts of the bible you list. Since much of the bible includes the Jewish old testament texts that have sections of God telling people to kill other people. Giving orders on how to tag people so you know they're slaves. It's got a whole lot of Nazi actions within it a new christian should be interested in seeing.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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25-11-2014, 10:20 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(25-11-2014 03:32 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Imagine how I felt as a new Christian, hearing about the Nazi "Christians" and then discovering in the Bible to love your neighbor as yourself, turn the other cheek, not to murder or one shows on has not the Spirit of God, etc.

So you are saying that Moses, who was in direct contact both verbal and physical, did not have the "Spirit of God" ? 'Cuae he murdered a shit ton of dudes. Hell by that standard God does not have the "Spirit of God" cause he has murdered millions. God never turns the other cheek in the Bible, God never loved anyone as he does him self in the Old Testament that's for damn sure.

Well I mean hypothetically they both murdered shit tons of dudes, given that neither exists they technically haven't but for the sake of argument.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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25-11-2014, 11:43 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
We can all stop arguing as I have found a way to determine who is, and is not, a True Christian™.


Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


So as soon as Q can wrangle up all of the Christians and get them all to either perform cunnilingus with King Cobras or drink arsenic, then we can start weeding out all of the dead Christian pretenders...

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