Did Hitler win?
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15-10-2014, 05:36 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
Hitler beat God but the US kicked his ass.

USA! USA! USA!
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15-10-2014, 05:55 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
Did Hitler win because a lot of people abort foetuses with serious defects?

Sure, yeah, ok. Hitler wins. HEIL HITLER, 88 and all that. I'm going to genetically engineer all of my children to look like Techno Viking. Yes, including the females.

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15-10-2014, 06:43 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(14-10-2014 12:11 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(14-10-2014 10:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm confused at times like everyone else, but I love and adhere to the scripture. Jesus said NO ONE unless they are born again. NO ONE means one cannot claim to be both a Christian who is heaven-bound and not born again. "No one" isn't a metaphor, it's a boundary/definition.

"Born again" is a metaphor, don't you think?

Wrong. Jesus was said to have said that. He was said to have said many things which we know were commonly circulating themes and parables. You don't know he said that. Does anyone you know remember what someone said 40-70 years ago ? http://bycommonconsent.com/2012/05/29/re...out-jesus/

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-10-2014, 03:01 AM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(15-10-2014 05:55 PM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  Did Hitler win because a lot of people abort foetuses with serious defects?

Sure, yeah, ok. Hitler wins. HEIL HITLER, 88 and all that. I'm going to genetically engineer all of my children to look like Techno Viking. Yes, including the females.

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ALL HAIL TECHNO VIKING!

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16-10-2014, 04:20 AM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(15-10-2014 06:43 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(14-10-2014 12:11 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  "Born again" is a metaphor, don't you think?

Wrong. Jesus was said to have said that. He was said to have said many things which we know were commonly circulating themes and parables. You don't know he said that. Does anyone you know remember what someone said 40-70 years ago ? http://bycommonconsent.com/2012/05/29/re...out-jesus/

It's still a metaphor, as in it's not literal. But we certainly can't know what Jesus said because it is all hearsay years after the alleged events.
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16-10-2014, 01:50 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(15-10-2014 01:15 PM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  
(14-10-2014 01:39 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  A real Christian per the Bible:

*is a peacemaker who is himself at peace
*has a numinous peace different than that offered by other religions or worldly things
*is to love, forgive and pray for the benefit of their enemies
*cannot murder
*upholds and chooses life
*is obedient to authorities, honors their family, etc.

The fact that the Nazi state was particularly vile to priests and nuns in the camps despite Hitler's Catholic childhood, the fact that Hitler apparently did not set foot in a church after his teen years, the fact that babies were baptized under Nazi flags and etc. - well, rather than me saying that Hitler was not a born again Christian who loved the Bible and Jesus and rather than you saying he might have been, let us say it was highly, exceptionally unlikely he was born again, which is what I tell Christians who ask me.

Wouldn't two reasonable, intelligent people agree Hitler may have been a teen adherent to the Catholic church but hardly a practicing born again believer as an adult? He might have been born again, I might be, and you might be, too... and?

So once again you bring out the NTS.
A 'real Christian' is someone who *and let me see if I get this right* 'accepts Jesus Christ into their heart as their lord and savoir and believes that he is the son of God and/or God made flesh and/or both, and that he died for the sins of all humanity'.
What a mouthful.

Simplify, please:

As foretold, Jesus died, rose. Trust Jesus.

The problem with the "untrue" Christians:

Trust Jesus AND. Trust Jesus BUT. I do believe X and Y and Z and do A,B,C.

What a mouthful is correct. You are 100% right.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-10-2014, 01:56 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(15-10-2014 04:56 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(15-10-2014 11:11 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You are strengthening my rationalist mindset on this issue, using scripture texts as a guide, which has been called a No True Scotsman fallacy, that only born again Christians are real followers of Jesus.

It's called out as a No True Scotsman Fallacy precisely because that's exactly what that is...

You, and only you, have the exclusive claim to True Christianity™. Everyone else? The billions of Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Baptist, Pentecostals, etc.? They're all wrong, but fortunately you've been able to divine the correct interpretations of the accepted books to form the correct doctrines and dogmas.

You and every other person who ever self-identified as a Christian going back to Saul of Tarsis. None of you fuckers have a clue, and none of you can all agree. 2.18 billion of you, and almost as many different and distinct ideas of what True Christianity™ is. Yeah, no thanks. You fail to be any more compelling then the rest of them.


(15-10-2014 11:11 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Catholics and Lutherans teach salvation by works.

Which, if we're being fair here, at least makes better sense than being persecuted for the thought crime of not having the correct belief based on insufficient evidence.


(15-10-2014 11:11 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I teach belief in Jesus or if you like faith or trust or reliance upon Christ.

Which is about as effective and consequential as my 'faith' and 'trust' in the Invisible Pink Unicorn.


(15-10-2014 11:11 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Catholics teach that murder and other "mortal sin" may be absolved via prayer, repentance, works--I teach as do evangelicals that no one may say they are born again and murder per the scriptures. And we know that the Nazis rounded up evangelical pastors for prison and forcibly closing their pulpits, those who taught trust in Jesus first, following a Nazi regime second, and only where it didn't contradict the scriptures.

Right, so still butthurt that the Nazis didn't play nice with all Christians?


(15-10-2014 11:11 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Let me tell you where I'm going with this, please.

If I asked you to stop, would it work?


(15-10-2014 11:11 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  My concern isn't that we rehash Godwin stuff on the web. I will commit fully to not using loaded statements like "all atheists are X" if you and other forum members will stop lumping all Christians together whether or not they follow the scriptures closely.

Problem: The vast majority of practicing Christians, who were also Nazi's, considered themselves Christians. We are not placing that label on them, they placed it upon themselves; while you are doing your best to try and distance yourself from them by claiming they aren't True Christians™ in an increasing convoluted series of No True Scotsman fallacies.


(15-10-2014 11:11 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Not that I'm trying to hold some quid pro quo over your head, by the way. I do need to be sensitive to the fact that there are many strains of belief among atheists (and I'm talking not only god or apatheism and etc. but many different things apart from god). Likewise, it is cringe-worthy when atheists lump all Christians in one place (their are theistic evolutionist and creationist Xians, pro-life and pro-abortion Christians, tithing Christians and Christians who don't give money, etc.)

Once again, that vast majority of Nazi Christians self-identified as Christians. We are not forcing that label upon them, it is one they chose, regardless of however much you might not like it.


(15-10-2014 11:11 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  But I repeat, reminding me that what could only logically be called the most nominal of Catholics and Lutherans who didn't attend church services, persecuted born again Christians, put priests and nuns into camps to perform particular atrocities against them, etc. is underscoring the need to love Jesus in truth rather than in very empty words only.

Not every person towed the line, and those who didn't were thrown in with the rest of the undesirables. The Evangelicals weren't persecuted because they were Evangelicals, they were persecuted because they didn't tow the line like the Catholics and Lutherans. That still doesn't makes the Catholics and Lutherans any less Christian than the Evangelicals. It's all just different flavors of the same bullshit.


(15-10-2014 11:11 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You wrote, "Belief in god and the love of Jesus did fuck-all to stop these atrocities".

The Holocaust happened. It was perpetuated by Christians. Thus belief in Jesus wasn't enough to stop genocide. Simple enough really.


(15-10-2014 11:11 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  How do you reckon that a lover of Jesus beat a Catholic priest to death or urinated on him in a death camp?

Because they have a particular interpretation of the scriptures that was just as true for them as your particular interpretation is true for you; and unlike an atheist, you can't sit on the sidelines and see just how full-of-shit they both are.


(15-10-2014 11:11 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I don't think the average person confuses a Nazi as a Jesus-lover with a real Jesus-lover passing illegal food through the fence to those the Nazis held captive, at peril of their own lives.

No True Scotsman.


(15-10-2014 11:11 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  There were loving atheists and loving theists who indeed risked their lives in military and non-military actions to end the Nazi horrors. Thanks.

Indeed. Doesn't make the Nazi's any less Christian than you. Drinking Beverage

If your argument is that NO religious adherent can be accurate unless their opinion is also a majority viewpoint, we'd have an issue, yes. Be aware I'm not using NO true Scotsman but FEW true Scotsmen! There are perhaps hundreds of millions of born again believers who believe as I do.

We could as well say that 10 million Americans believed we should not have gone to Iraq and the other 300 million were excited about it, so Iraq was "right". I think the 10 million were correct there, perhaps. You?

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16-10-2014, 01:57 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(15-10-2014 06:43 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(14-10-2014 12:11 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  "Born again" is a metaphor, don't you think?

Wrong. Jesus was said to have said that. He was said to have said many things which we know were commonly circulating themes and parables. You don't know he said that. Does anyone you know remember what someone said 40-70 years ago ? http://bycommonconsent.com/2012/05/29/re...out-jesus/

Okay. I will try to refrain from "Jesus said" and simply say, "What the text says". The text says "be born again". One can self-identify as born again or not, trusting by faith or not, god-fearing or not, etc.

Thanks.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-10-2014, 02:27 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
Quote:It's seeing a Hitler in the same camp with a Billy Graham or etc. that causes the confusion IMO.

I can't imagine why. Both were scumbags.

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16-10-2014, 02:35 PM
RE: Did Hitler win?
(16-10-2014 02:27 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:It's seeing a Hitler in the same camp with a Billy Graham or etc. that causes the confusion IMO.

I can't imagine why. Both were scumbags.

Please make a list for me. Just Graham, we all know about the other fellow:

Billy Graham is terrible because:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Thanks. I like to learn and if I need to not use him as an example, I shant.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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