Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
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03-11-2014, 09:48 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
The correct action is to Rule 5 that fuck. Dodgy

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03-11-2014, 10:09 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 05:59 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(03-11-2014 05:53 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  Humans, based upon that idiotic story of Adam and Eve, didn't willfully sell themselves into slavery to Satan. They were duped by the greatest of all tricksters who was allowed to enter Eden by your bumbling ball of infallibility. I repeat, humans did not sell themselves to Satan.

Yup... like I said every time you open your mouth you show you know nothing about Christian doctrine... Don't presume to teach me anything until you know a bit yourself Smile

Yes... humans DID sell themselves to satan... you've watched too much tv and trying to envision this as a black arts ritual.

Man chose rebellion... man gave his dominion to satan including dominion over man... just handed it to him Smile

Read a theology book or a bible or something sheesh lmao

LEARN something Smile

You know nothing about Christian doctrine, no so-called Christian can have a grasp of "Christian" doctrine because there are over 40,000 variants.

There's not even agreement on how one can be saved, there are at least 208 variants of that.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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03-11-2014, 10:21 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 01:30 AM)godnads Wrote:  Right, we've all heard the story about how God sent his son Jesus to die on the cross for our sins and three days later he rose from the dead.

My questions to Christians - Did God cheat?

I mean.. yes it's high and mighty to sacrific your own son to a bunch of people, but this is God you are talking about. Yes, he allowed for his son to die, but three days later, he reincarnated him.

Isn't that cheating?

I think he isn't that great after all.

I find the whole concept of dying from a Christian perspective to be ridiculous anyway. "Transitioning to the next life" would be more accurate. From the Christian perspective, nobody dies - as in ceasing to live. So then neither did Jesus. Even if it was completely true, it wasn't much of a sacrifice to simply move to a different plane of existence.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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03-11-2014, 10:25 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2014 11:17 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 01:30 AM)godnads Wrote:  Right, we've all heard the story about how God sent his son Jesus to die on the cross for our sins and three days later he rose from the dead.

My questions to Christians - Did God cheat?

I mean.. yes it's high and mighty to sacrific your own son to a bunch of people, but this is God you are talking about. Yes, he allowed for his son to die, but three days later, he reincarnated him.

Isn't that cheating?

I think he isn't that great after all.

When you consider that, in accordance with christian doctrine of incarnation and atonement, the triune "god" removed part of himself and sent it down to embody a human being, knowing he would watch his "son" be executed selflessly, thus fulfilling gods requirement for sacrifice to pay for the original sin that man could not pay. SO lets summarize, allow man to "kill" part of "yourself" to satisfy your own ego driven requirement for the debt of sin to be paid, a debt man could not pay, because you say man cannot pay the debt. Sounds like a serious mental disease to me. Here is a link where I break down this very thing.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid674774

Drooling

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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03-11-2014, 10:28 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 10:25 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...rce-thread

Scroll down to post #3.

See where it says #3 ? That's also a link. Click on it and you get

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid674774
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03-11-2014, 10:30 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 02:20 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  What about the witnesses to His resurrection? They all lied??

You mean all 500-600 of them? I find it quite interesting that Jesus would do this supposedly great thing for us - namely die to save us - and then rise from the dead - and why would he rise? Of course, to prove to us that he is a deity. Without that, he's just another man claiming to be the messiah who was full of crap. So, if Jesus wanted any believers, he had to prove he was more than that. And when he supposedly did so by becoming undead, he hid it. He appeared to just a handful of people. I mean, if you're going to prove something, then prove it. What's with a deity who obviously should know better, appearing only to a mere 500-600 people?

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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03-11-2014, 10:31 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 01:30 AM)godnads Wrote:  Right, we've all heard the story about how God sent his son Jesus to die on the cross for our sins and three days later he rose from the dead.

My questions to Christians - Did God cheat?

I mean.. yes it's high and mighty to sacrific your own son to a bunch of people, but this is God you are talking about. Yes, he allowed for his son to die, but three days later, he reincarnated him.

Isn't that cheating?

I think he isn't that great after all.

I beginning to think that god is, in fact, a vampire.

It is blood sacrifice that he wants, and burnt offerings and blood sacrifices abound in the bible. The blood is seen as the life of a creature.

So once Jesus has spilled his blood god is appeased. He can allow Jesus to go on his merry way.
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03-11-2014, 10:42 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 02:43 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(03-11-2014 02:39 AM)pablo Wrote:  I wouldn't let them become slaves in the first place. Especially if I were an omnipotent god.

Are you saying you would force your will on them and not allow their own choices? You would make a race of slaves for yourself?

It was ok for your Jesus. What if I wanted to keep my original sin? Jesus supposedly didn't give me that free will choice because he imposed his will by dying for me. I never asked for that, but he did it anyway according to you. Personally, I think it's better for a god to impose its will instead of allowing suffering. Actually, isn't that exactly what will happen in heaven? I mean, how can it be total bliss up there if your Jesus doesn't impose his will to prevent suffering? Consider Do you even understand all the inconsistencies with the excuses what you believe?

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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03-11-2014, 10:49 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 03:00 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Lets not be morons... If you simply FORGIVE your child that sold themselves into slavery, you've done notta damned thing to buy them back. You HAVE to pay that price to get them back... WOULD YOU ??? Yes or no?

To whom does God need to pay a price? The only logical one that comes to mind for you to be at all correct would be Satan. So are you saying Satan has a hold over God? Consider

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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03-11-2014, 10:51 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2014 11:15 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
The "efficacy of sacrifice", the origins of the concept and where it all came from, and how it differed between cultures is interesting, (maybe). An amazing amount of Zoroastrian material ended up in Christianity, and an amazing amount of Christian material doesn't flow from it's supposed (Hebrew) source material.
It's also related to "scapegoating", and a lot has been written on that subject.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articl...astrianism
http://www.hamerton-kelly.com/talks/girard_oct02.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Girard
http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Sacrifice.html (good bibliography at the end).

It's a little nerdy, but the "spiritual purification" (most akin to Zoroastrian "purification") is not at all the same thing as the "ritual" purification concepts of the Hebrews, (which certainly did not require, necessarily, either a sacrifice, or anything other than water).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_washing_in_Judaism

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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