Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
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04-11-2014, 01:17 PM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
Nothing but Crickets Crickets from the "superior knowledge" of Wolfbtn in this thread today. Interesting. Consider

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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04-11-2014, 01:48 PM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 03:02 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(03-11-2014 03:00 AM)pablo Wrote:  You're not too bright are you? You're talking about a fairy tale like it really happened. Unless you have any evidence of any kind, I'm just going to keep mocking your ignorance with glee.

Well glee away, and keep showing what you don't know. The thread asks a question, the OP makes his point, and Im here to answer it... why are you not sticking with the topic?

WOULD you buy your children back if they sold themselves into slavery, OR would you let them die in misery as slaves? Which is it?
Are you actually saying you'd give an omnipotent being an ultimatum?
Hit your head a few times did ya?

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

― Gordon R. Dickson
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04-11-2014, 01:52 PM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 04:51 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(03-11-2014 04:38 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Does it require an action, or forgiveness to release one's burden? Does forgiveness have the power to remove the burden of a person's guilt?

You aren't getting it... "forgiveness" doesn't buy you back from slavery. Would you buy your child back out of slavery or would you let them die in it?

I'd kill the slaver and liberate the slaves.

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

― Gordon R. Dickson
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04-11-2014, 02:34 PM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 02:20 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Then where do you suppose His body went to, and why weren't the Romans and the Priestly guards able to produce His body?

Pick any modern-day Jerusalem office building. Start an archeological dig until you find a mass grave of Roman crucifixion victims. Pick any skeleton at random and name it "Jesus."

Quote:What about the witnesses to His resurrection? They all lied??

More likely, Paul the Antichrist and his band of merry men lied about there being witnesses in the first place.

Quote:Why did the church take off like a shot all of a sudden, with thousands of people converting every day AT THAT time period?

The church didn't really take off till the 300s CE, when Constantine saw the utility of supplanting multiple traditional gods with a single entity to consolidate power.
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04-11-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 01:57 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  The whole ridiculous concept was invented by Paul.

The real Jesus, if he ever even existed, died for one reason only, because he was an insurgent who tried to start a war with Rome.

Respectfully, Mark, I'm confused:

Jesus was an insurgent against Rome, so as you put it elsewhere recently, Rome used Paul to spread a religion to quell insurgency? I don't want to misquote you but that's what I understood from a recent thread.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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04-11-2014, 08:02 PM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(04-11-2014 03:32 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Jesus was an insurgent against Rome

How so? The only thing I remember Jesus saying with respect to Rome was to pay your taxes to Caesar.
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04-11-2014, 10:51 PM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
OMG

Ok.. thanks for you input people. I think some of the posts might have gotten off track a bit. Nevertheless its really entertaining reading your replies.

So to get back to my question:

Because God so loved the world, he sent his only son to die for our sins right? But because Jesus came back to live again after three days. That means he didn't really die for us. So the original sin is still there. I'm just saying that God knew his son will come alive again, so he had nothing to loose, but gained all the respect from his followers.
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04-11-2014, 11:05 PM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(04-11-2014 08:02 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 03:32 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Jesus was an insurgent against Rome

How so? The only thing I remember Jesus saying with respect to Rome was to pay your taxes to Caesar.

If you look at just the context of history at that time and place, if Jesus had existed, he would most likely have been a member or leader of a zealous xenophobic Jewish cult with an ax to grind with the Roman occupiers. Jesus most certainly wasn't a Hellenized Jew.

So the 'give unto Caesar' parts that shows up in the later Gospels were probably added there by later Pro-Roman supporters trying to co-opt the movement, and possibly by those in Rome with an eye towards purposely undermining it.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
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05-11-2014, 07:22 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 04:51 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  You aren't getting it... "forgiveness" doesn't buy you back from slavery. Would you buy your child back out of slavery or would you let them die in it?

You aren't getting it. An all-powerful god suffers no such limitations as these, so your analogy is terrible.

Is your god great or not? If he is, stop adding human limitations to him to justify his bizarre actions. If he's not, why call him God?


(04-11-2014 11:05 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  So the 'give unto Caesar' parts that shows up in the later Gospels were probably added there by later Pro-Roman supporters trying to co-opt the movement, and possibly by those in Rome with an eye towards purposely undermining it.

Ah. I'd always taken that as "If I publicly go against Rome, I get fuggin crucified, so I'd better pay them lip service.". I hadn't thought of it as a later addition to the stories.
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05-11-2014, 08:51 AM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2014 09:24 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
Quote:What about the witnesses to His resurrection? They all lied??

No.
Most likely of all, was that no one ever meant he "rose" from the dead in the first place.
The first gospel had no "resurrection". The fact that the original Gospel of Mark ended with an empty tomb is not disputed.
The first writer to speak of it was an Apocalyptic Jew, who understood the "Jesus event" in the same light as all the other "Jewish heroes" and was trying to get across that he thought Jesus was also an "exalted" one (*raised up*) like all the other Jewish heroes had been "exalted". In that context, the "Jesus event" makes perfect contextual sense.

They took the ball,, and ran with a mistranslation, later.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...other-look
See :
"How Jesus Became God: The Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher from Galilee", Dr. Bart D Ehrman, (agnostic atheist)
"The Trouble With Resurrection", Dr. Bernard Brandon Scott (Christian seminary Professor of New Testament)

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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