Did Jesus DIE for our sins?

[pablo]

(03-11-2014 02:13 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  You guys don't know very much about your theology do you?

Lets say we lived in the days of legal slavery... not like we don't subtly live in slavery now, in many regards, but I mean the blatant slavery like was experienced in ancient middle eastern and european city-states.

Lets say One of your children, although you were wealthy, sold themselves into slavery because they couldn't wait on your inheritance. It doesn't become long before they find the slave master isn't the nice guy helping them out, that they imagined when they sold themselves for a fee.

If it looked to you like your child was going to live the rest of his life in abuse and misery and then die enslaved. Would you PAY to buy back your child? Yes or no?

New fiction to avoid addressing the question.
This seems to be your M.O.

[EvolutionKills]

(03-11-2014 02:21 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 02:18 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  Sorry Wolfy but comparing mortal slave owners to omnipotent beings ain't gonna fly here.

Then you don't know theology whatsoever. This is exactly the story of Christ. So WOULD you buy your child back or would you let him/her die in slavery?

So I take it that reading comprehension and imagination were not high on your to-do list growing up?

Keyword there is omnipotent. While it's meaning is fun to ponder, it's place in the Bible makes the whole thing absurd. An all-powerful creator of the universe need not employ a convoluted Rube Goldberg mechanism of substitutionary atonement in order to fix a system he broke in the first place.

So in other words, why buy back the slave when you have to power to fix things instantly by will alone? Apparently you lack the imagination to contemplate these things.

[EvolutionKills]

(03-11-2014 02:16 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 01:57 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  The whole ridiculous concept was invented by Paul.

The real Jesus, if he ever even existed, died for one reason only, because he was an insurgent who tried to start a war with Rome.

The Romans had no problem with Jesus... He taught the people to give to Caesar what was his. He taught love and when they tried to make Him king to lead a rebellion, He refused...

Another piece of bullshit propaganda now corrected and put to rest.

Actually the propaganda bit the is "give to Caesar that which is Caesar's" which was added much later for the express benefit of Rome.

[Wolfbitn]

(03-11-2014 02:27 AM)pablo Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 02:13 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  You guys don't know very much about your theology do you?

Lets say we lived in the days of legal slavery... not like we don't subtly live in slavery now, in many regards, but I mean the blatant slavery like was experienced in ancient middle eastern and european city-states.

Lets say One of your children, although you were wealthy, sold themselves into slavery because they couldn't wait on your inheritance. It doesn't become long before they find the slave master isn't the nice guy helping them out, that they imagined when they sold themselves for a fee.

If it looked to you like your child was going to live the rest of his life in abuse and misery and then die enslaved. Would you PAY to buy back your child? Yes or no?

New fiction to avoid addressing the question.
This seems to be your M.O.

Quit showing you don't know a damned thing about the VERY BASIC precepts of Christianity too if you're going to be posting about it, educate yourselves first. This is EXACTLY what the story of Christ is about. Read a theology book or something sheesh.

You never gave your answer... WOULD YOU buy your child back, yes or no?

No? You'd let them die in slavery?

.

[Wolfbitn]

(03-11-2014 02:30 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 02:16 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  The Romans had no problem with Jesus... He taught the people to give to Caesar what was his. He taught love and when they tried to make Him king to lead a rebellion, He refused...

Another piece of bullshit propaganda now corrected and put to rest.

Actually the propaganda bit the is "give to Caesar that which is Caesar's" which was added much later for the express benefit of Rome.

Sure it was... whatever you say... Tell me exactly when it was added and by whom specifically.

[pablo]

(03-11-2014 02:16 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 01:57 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  The whole ridiculous concept was invented by Paul.

The real Jesus, if he ever even existed, died for one reason only, because he was an insurgent who tried to start a war with Rome.

The Romans had no problem with Jesus... He taught the people to give to Caesar what was his. He taught love and when they tried to make Him king to lead a rebellion, He refused...

Another piece of bullshit propaganda now corrected and put to rest.

According to your book they crucified him, then there's that whole spear in the side thing.
I'd say according to that, they had a problem with him.
That is of course if he even existed at all.

[EvolutionKills]

(03-11-2014 02:20 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 01:38 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  It's an ancient fluff piece. Jesus might have been real but he did not rise from death nor was he related to any supernatural diety.

Then where do you suppose His body went to, and why weren't the Romans and the Priestly guards able to produce His body?

This story is hearsay written decades or centuries after the supposed events. Zero evidence that it actually occurred.

(03-11-2014 02:20 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  What about the witnesses to His resurrection? They all lied??

Lied? Most likely they never even existed. Zero evidence for their existence, zero eye-witness accounts, everything we do have is hearsay and decades or centuries after the supposed events.

(03-11-2014 02:20 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Why did the church take off like a shot all of a sudden, with thousands of people converting every day AT THAT time period?

That's a lie. Christianity was still a mostly unknown Podunk fringe cult for centuries.

(03-11-2014 02:20 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  These would have been the eyewitnesses, all their friends and family... in spite of the fact they were killing Christians and did for the next almost 300 years.

There are no eye-witness accounts of anything regarding Jesus supposed life, death, or resurrection. Zero.

Also, lying about it won't change the facts, so there is that...

[EvolutionKills]

(03-11-2014 02:33 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 02:30 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Actually the propaganda bit the is "give to Caesar that which is Caesar's" which was added much later for the express benefit of Rome.

Sure it was... whatever you say... Tell me exactly when it was added and by whom specifically.

Funny, do you have that same level of skepticism whenever your pastor tells you who wrote the Gospels?

Pro-Tip: The Gospels were all written anonymously.

Also, you should ask Mark Fulton for the specifics, as that's really his wheelhouse. He'll probably throw you a half-dozen citations and links to go with it, not that you'll actually read any of them...

[pablo]

(03-11-2014 02:32 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 02:27 AM)pablo Wrote:  New fiction to avoid addressing the question.
This seems to be your M.O.

Quit showing you don't know a damned thing about the VERY BASIC precepts of Christianity too if you're going to be posting about it, educate yourselves first. This is EXACTLY what the story of Christ is about. Read a theology book or something sheesh.

You never gave your answer... WOULD YOU buy your child back, yes or no?

No? You'd let them die in slavery?

.

I wouldn't let them become slaves in the first place. Especially if I were an omnipotent god.

[Rahn127]

Wouldn't have been just as effective if this jesus character had made a basket for my sins or perhaps drank a glass of wine for my sins.

"I drank this glass of wine and now all your sins are forgiven. Or I could just say Hey, there is no such thing as sin. I totally made that shit up."