Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
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03-11-2014, 03:08 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 03:00 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(03-11-2014 02:55 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Substitutionary atonement is bullshit, this idea that [b]personal responsibility can be traded like stocks is bullshit. But assuming it was true, one doesn't need this convoluted mess when an omnipotent being could fix it instantly by will alone.

Once again, you appear to lack the imagination for such contemplation.



Nothing has been shown. Empty claims have been asserted, but they are still empty. Lacking any evidence for the existence of 'sin', it's interaction with our reality, or for any of the claims made in the Gospels, leaves us with zero reason to accept any of it at face value. We can still entertain the ideas presented and pick them apart via mental gymnastics, but that by no means lends them any credence of plausibility or truth.

So maybe you need to get back to the drawing board and come up with a way to demonstrate the existence of 'sin', then maybe the rest of us will take you seriously.



It is simply this, (and it is so comically sad that it must be explain to you in this way) we don't take any of it on faith. But even when we grant the assumptions for the basis or argument, it is still a nonsensical convoluted mess.

We can explore these ideas without adopting them. Apparently that is an alien concept for you?



If the end-goal was human salvation, then why not simply forgive? Or never create sin in the first place? If there exists a Heaven with free-will, then why create this universe if he was clearly capable of making a better one?
Lets not be morons... If you simply FORGIVE your child that sold themselves into slavery, you've done notta damned thing to buy them back. You HAVE to pay that price to get them back... WOULD YOU ??? Yes or no?

Why cant you guys answer ONE single fucking question in ANY thread youre in?

Because your mouths write checks your asses cant cash
.

Why answer a pointless analogy that has ZERO bearing on what we're talking about? Your strained and facile analogy ignores your god's supposed omnipotence, which if I had, I would use to instantly correct the situation out of force of will alone. You are asking a loaded question, and getting butt-hurt when we're all too smart to answer it the way you want. Go cry a fucking river.

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03-11-2014, 03:11 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 03:08 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(03-11-2014 03:00 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Lets not be morons... If you simply FORGIVE your child that sold themselves into slavery, you've done notta damned thing to buy them back. You HAVE to pay that price to get them back... WOULD YOU ??? Yes or no?

Why cant you guys answer ONE single fucking question in ANY thread youre in?

Because your mouths write checks your asses cant cash
.

Why answer a pointless analogy that has ZERO bearing on what we're talking about? Your strained and facile analogy ignores your god's supposed [b]omnipotence, which if I had, I would use to instantly correct the situation out of force of will alone. You are asking a loaded question, and getting butt-hurt when we're all too smart to answer it the way you want. Go cry a fucking river.

You see me laughing at you not crying. The question asks did Jesus die for our sins? I'm asking YOU would you buy your children back from a slave owner or would you let them die in slavery? You guys cant answer it because it makes the point you don't want made Smile
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03-11-2014, 03:11 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 03:08 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(03-11-2014 03:03 AM)pablo Wrote:  My mistake, I didn't realize you're a complete, dishonest, idiot until now.
I'm done with you now, you no longer amuse me.

Im sure youre not amused... most children hate a good ass whipping, and I guess youre no exception Smile Wink
Nice try junior.
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03-11-2014, 03:13 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
Wolfbitn all you're doing is sucking your own dick in a circle. Your guestamation of the origins are no more correct than anyone else's. And no matter how many times you say "neener neener I'm right, you're wrong" doesn't make you any more right, it makes a troll with his own dick in his mouth.

Now kindly fuck off and go play hopscotch on a busy highway.
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03-11-2014, 03:14 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 03:11 AM)pablo Wrote:  
(03-11-2014 03:08 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Im sure youre not amused... most children hate a good ass whipping, and I guess youre no exception Smile Wink
Nice try junior.

But the question remains o ass whipped child, Would you buy your children back from a slave owner or not? Would you let them die in slavery?

THAT's why Jesus gave His life. To buy us back... BUT, we're also free to choose to stay in slavery.

So answer the question and tell me what YOU would do.
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03-11-2014, 03:17 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2014 03:24 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 03:06 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(03-11-2014 03:02 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I cannot, because nobody knows, including yourself. But I can read the literature and consult with experts and understand how they arrive at their consensus, whereas you just uncritically swallow whatever drivel passes for 'knowledge' at your church or bible study. They were anonymously written, decades after the supposed events by non-eyewitnesses who clearly wrote in fluent Greek and not Hebrew or Aramaic, and the earliest copies we have of the Gospels do not have author attribution and are often missing who pieces that were added to them by later Christian scribes (the oldest copes of Mark have no ascension or resurrection, they simply end with Jesus dying on the cross, the extended ending was a fabrication that doesn't show up until copies of Mark centuries later).

I know these things, as well as we can know them, as supported by the best evidence currently available to us. You apparently don't know jack-shit.

WOW... you really DONT know a thing about this.

What do you claim are the "oldest manuscripts"? What are they called?

Can you even Google?

[Image: 800px-Rylands_papyrus.jpg]

Rylands Library Papyrus P52

The oldest scrap of papyrus that we can identify as being a piece of the New Testament is a 3.5 by 2.5 inch scrap of what appears to be a part of John 18:31–33, 37–38, with a rough date of ~125 CE. So its a scrap the size of a credit card, and even this would be dated at best to decades after the supposed events.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rylands_Lib...apyrus_P52
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New...ent_papyri
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript

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03-11-2014, 03:17 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 03:13 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  Your guestamation of the origins are no more correct than anyone else's.

Origins of what o ass whipped child? And if you are referring to scriptures yes I am much more educated on the subject than you, and its made apparent by all your comments.

Give me the history of the manuscripts in 3 paragraphs or less. and show me what you know Smile
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03-11-2014, 03:22 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 03:11 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(03-11-2014 03:08 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Why answer a pointless analogy that has ZERO bearing on what we're talking about? Your strained and facile analogy ignores your god's supposed omnipotence, which if I had, I would use to instantly correct the situation out of force of will alone. You are asking a loaded question, and getting butt-hurt when we're all too smart to answer it the way you want. Go cry a fucking river.

You see me laughing at you not crying. The question asks did Jesus die for our sins? I'm asking YOU would you buy your children back from a slave owner or would you let them die in slavery? You guys cant answer it because it makes the point you don't want made Smile

No, it just ignores that inconvenient fact that with omnipotence, the question is meaningless.

So is your god limited? Does he have to abide by rules and laws even he cannot break? Because if you had evidence for this, and could prove that these laws existed and that your god could not subvert them, then your question might be relevant.

Once again, if you're laughing, it's only because you know so little you don't even know how little you know. Basically, you're starting to look like a poster-child for the Dunning-Kruger effect.

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03-11-2014, 03:25 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
A couple thousand years ago some middle eastern assholes conveniently wrote down their God's rules that just so happen to coincide with their beneficial desires.

There's the OT. I'm on my cell so give me a minute for the New.
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03-11-2014, 03:32 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
It seems like Wolfbitn is just making up shit as he goes. That's gotta be a first for a Christian, right?
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