Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
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03-11-2014, 05:27 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
In your scenario God is the buyer, the seller and Liam Neeson's character from Taken. He holds all the cards and made all the rules. He also doesn't exist which is why the need for blood is senseless, as was the flood, and every other cruel act this amalgamation of Gods thrown together in the Christian melting pot of stupidity that he brought down over those he so loves.

Was that a run on sentence?
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03-11-2014, 05:27 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 05:21 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  Mathilda, that's the part where they say "God works in mysterious ways" or "you can't understand Gods plan" and bla ba mother fucking blah.

You've NEVER seen me say this... im the only one in this damned thread even able to provide credible sources and quotes Smile
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03-11-2014, 05:30 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 05:27 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  In your scenario God is the buyer, the seller and Liam Neeson's character from Taken. He holds all the cards and made all the rules. He also doesn't exist which is why the need for blood is senseless, as was the flood, and every other cruel act this amalgamation of Gods thrown together in the Christian melting pot of stupidity that he brought down over those he so loves.

Was that a run on sentence?

Its really too bad the majority of you have nothing above a single little childish quip every time you post and never have anything intelligent on the subject.. A debate against those unarmed with intellectually inclined comments and credible source material is pretty boring. Its like... winning by default
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03-11-2014, 05:31 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 05:17 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  This is what gets me about these Christian ideas about Jesus dying for our sins, what's the physical mechanism behind it? Can we reproduce it in laboratory conditions?

I don't know about in laboratory conditions, because it might cross some ethical lines, but I think the physical mechanism, would be the mechanism that operate in regards to someone dying for your sake, so that you can live in a meaningful way. That death might be viewed as sacred, and you might even feel indebted to that person as well.

Quote:And what is sin?

In a literal sense, it's a archery term, referring to missing the mark at the center of the target.

Quote:Can we measure it?
Possibly in the same way we can measure failure, resentment, and whatever barriers that hinder our relationships with each other.

Quote:If it has an effect on reality then it must have energy, so can we harvest it and use it for powering our homes?

I don't think something like love can charge my iPhone.

Quote:why isn't there a single peer-reviewed scientific paper mentioning anything related to presence of sin and whatever mechanisms Jesus used when he died on the cross?

I don't think it's a laboratory scientist area of interest, but you can always read the works of Rene Girard, on Scape Mechanism, and Memetic Violence, or James Cones The Cross and the Lynching tree to get some perspective.
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03-11-2014, 05:39 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
Would I give up what god supposedly gave up to purchase back a child from slavery? Sure. Why not? God lost nothing. Zero. Zilch. He was mildly inconvenienced for a bit. It's a bit like asking if a trilionaire would spend two cents to do something. Or if an average person would let another pinch them real hard for a second. But another fun bit looking at it is that you're casting Satan in the role of 'slaver' that mankind is being 'bought back from'. So what's Satan getting out of the transaction?

Though you've got a fun contradiction in your ideas, too. You complain about the idea of not letting a child sell themselves into slavery in the first place due to free will but have no problem overriding their free will to buy them back, nor with allowing them to suffer for a long time after realizing the mistake before buying them back.

But personally, if I were an omnipotent entity who's child was considering self enslavement, I'd realize slavery is bad and eliminate it as a possibility first, by first outlawing slavery and second enforcing that law. ... Guess god was too busy admiring himself to do that.
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03-11-2014, 05:45 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 05:26 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(03-11-2014 05:07 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  You just really don't know shit about Christian doctrine do you?

A DISHONEST deity would use His powers to break His own laws... so sure if one is dishonest and has no integrity that may be the type of god they'd follow.

Man sold his dominion and his allegiance and gave over his independence to subject himself to ownership. You can see today where a world trying to stamp out God has gotten us to.

God wasn't about to "start all over" because WE fucked up. Nor was He about to break His own just laws. Satan now had ownership and we were broken off with no way back... God loved His children, and bought us back with His own blood. But you don't have to choose to accept that freedom to be able to return... youre free to go your own way Smile

NOW you know a little bit about Christian doctrine Smile

I know all about "Christian doctrine". You are STILL implying your powerless deity is SUBJECT to Reality, and not it's master. Whatever the reason he was was executed, it wasn't what Christians CLAIM it was.
Matthew 26:39 "Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, 'My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.' " No ONE deity has more the ONE will.
"Substitutionary atonement" was cooked up to justify the death of a supposed messiah, who never got his job done. It implies the deity is SUBJECT to Reality, not it's master. An omnipotent, omniscient deity could have cooked up another way to do anything it wanted.

Grow up.

Youre suggesting God, cheat, break His own law showing lack of integrity, just snap His fingers and correct all our wrongs, pay our new owner NOTHING for the slaves he bought, and telling ME to grow up.

Like I said, you know NOTHING about Christian doctrine.
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03-11-2014, 05:49 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
if it happened then my old thread is my opinion

if it didn't then all the more reason to make fun of it

so its a win win
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03-11-2014, 05:53 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 05:30 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(03-11-2014 05:27 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  In your scenario God is the buyer, the seller and Liam Neeson's character from Taken. He holds all the cards and made all the rules. He also doesn't exist which is why the need for blood is senseless, as was the flood, and every other cruel act this amalgamation of Gods thrown together in the Christian melting pot of stupidity that he brought down over those he so loves.

Was that a run on sentence?

Its really too bad the majority of you have nothing above a single little childish quip every time you post and never have anything intelligent on the subject.. A debate against those unarmed with intellectually inclined comments and credible source material is pretty boring. Its like... winning by default

You deserve nothing more than a childish quip if not complete ignoring. We are only quoting your book of fairy tales. We didn't come up with the stupidity inside the babble so don't blame us when you can't justify why your Superman in the sky can't figure out his own fuck up without killing his alter ego.

Humans, based upon that idiotic story of Adam and Eve, didn't willfully sell themselves into slavery to Satan. They were duped by the greatest of all tricksters who was allowed to enter Eden by your bumbling ball of infallibility. I repeat, humans did not sell themselves to Satan.

So now here comes Super Stupid with the grand scheme to save us all by killing himself, though he really doesn't die, all in a twisted plot to win our affection. Sounds like the stalker who steals the pretty girls dog only to return it back to her in an attempt to win her heart...granted he's only going to rape and kill her later.
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03-11-2014, 05:54 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
(03-11-2014 05:39 AM)OddGamer Wrote:  Would I give up what god supposedly gave up to purchase back a child from slavery? Sure. Why not? God lost nothing. Zero. Zilch. He was mildly inconvenienced for a bit.

Lets test that theory.

1) You teach love... that the fulfilling of the law is in NOT casting the stone.
2) Your message of love is found to be a threat to those in leadership who are corrupted and greedy and they begin campaigns against you.
3) For your message of love you are openly accused of being satan, the very party you will pay off with your own blood
4) You are falsely arrested
5) You are brutally beaten
6) You are convicted in a kangaroo court with people paid to lie against you
7) You are beaten more and dragged to the Roman procurator asking them to kill you
8) You are beaten more as you are then taken to the king, and he sees to it you are beaten and sent back to the procurator.
9) The procurator, in an effort to save your life, has you unmercifully beaten with a cat o 9 tails.
10) The crowd you had healed and taught love to, then began calling out for your crucifixion
11) You carry your own cross while still being beaten to your own crucifixion
12) Nails fasten your wrists and feet to the cross
13) You hang there naked before the mocking crowd until you die

Youd consider this a walk in the park if you went through this?
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03-11-2014, 05:57 AM
RE: Did Jesus DIE for our sins?
The point your missing Wolfshittin is that your ridiculous story is flawed from the start.

Also that I'm fornicating your orbital socket. Wink
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