Poll: Did Jesus Exist?
He was a real person.
Jesus is a complete myth.
He may have been real, but has become so shrouded by myth that we can't know anything about him.
Other- please explain.
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Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
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08-10-2014, 10:01 AM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
(08-10-2014 09:59 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 09:54 AM)unfogged Wrote:  I suggest you read Carrier's latest book. The earlier writings and videos you mentioned were not peer-reviewed and, while they covered a lot of the same ground, were much less detailed. I have read/viewed much of the same material, and others, and still held to the idea that historicity was the simplest option.

I am not saying that he is right, just that I think he presents a strong case to indeed "take away Jesus' historicity". I still need to re-read it and review many of the claims and listen to other responses.

I just don't give the current consensus the reverence that you appear to have for it.

sure.. I may read Carrier's book. We'll see. Either that or I'll keep immunizing my son until the current consensus of experts tells me otherwise... I know there are crazies out there who say I shouldn't...
What... what were we talking about?

Still conflating hard science and textual criticism?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-10-2014, 10:05 AM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2014 10:08 AM by anonymous66.)
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
(08-10-2014 10:01 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 09:59 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  sure.. I may read Carrier's book. We'll see. Either that or I'll keep immunizing my son until the current consensus of experts tells me otherwise... I know there are crazies out there who say I shouldn't...
What... what were we talking about?

Still conflating hard science and textual criticism?

Still rejecting history as a legitimate field of study (isn't Carrier a historian)?
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08-10-2014, 10:06 AM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
(08-10-2014 09:57 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  Have any of you thought of applying the same reasoning you use to reject Jesus as being historical to other figures in history?

why not start threads in order to convince others that Socrates never existed? He never even wrote anything down...

Yes, they have... repeatedly. And it has no impact on anybodies life if Socrates never existed. If Plato, Xenophon, and some playwriters of the time made him up as a character. His contribution is merely philosophical discussions. Whether he didn't exist or not doesn't change any grand belief upon the nature of the universe as it does for people in Jesus.

This is one of the rudimentary arguments defenders of the faith and Jesus try to come up with... The sad thing is it shows these are people likely suffering from critical thinking skills because the obvious significant difference is there to anyone who actually looks at the idea.

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08-10-2014, 10:08 AM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
(08-10-2014 10:06 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 09:57 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  Have any of you thought of applying the same reasoning you use to reject Jesus as being historical to other figures in history?

why not start threads in order to convince others that Socrates never existed? He never even wrote anything down...

Yes, they have... repeatedly. And it has no impact on anybodies life if Socrates never existed. If Plato, Xenophon, and some playwriters of the time made him up as a character. His contribution is merely philosophical discussions. Whether he didn't exist or not doesn't change any grand belief upon the nature of the universe as it does for people in Jesus.
Okay.. so, why is Jesus so special? Why take the time to go against what the experts in the field of history are saying about Jesus (he did exist in history)?

Especially when there are much easier targets.
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08-10-2014, 10:10 AM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
(08-10-2014 10:08 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 10:06 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Yes, they have... repeatedly. And it has no impact on anybodies life if Socrates never existed. If Plato, Xenophon, and some playwriters of the time made him up as a character. His contribution is merely philosophical discussions. Whether he didn't exist or not doesn't change any grand belief upon the nature of the universe as it does for people in Jesus.
Okay.. so, why is Jesus so special? Why take the time to go against what the experts in the field of history are saying about Jesus (he did exist in history)?

Especially when there are much easier targets.

There are experts in the field that say he didn't exist, at least not in any way as described... so what is it you are implying?

What are such easier targets? The point of Jesus is because his existence is tied inherently to Christianity. If he didn't exist, it makes most Christians understanding and belief in it incorrect.

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08-10-2014, 10:15 AM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
Quote:why not start threads in order to convince others that Socrates never existed? He never even wrote anything down...

I don't recall starting this one. You're the one with an axe to grind.

Quote:sure.. I may read Carrier's book. We'll see. Either that or I'll keep immunizing my son until the current consensus of experts tells me otherwise... I know there are crazies out there who say I shouldn't...
What... what were we talking about?

Right. Carrier is a "crazy" because he is submitted an hypothesis for peer review that goes against a general consensus in his field of expertise just like Jenna what'shername has a hypothesis about something she knows nothing about.

Do you think there is ever a chance that a field can be overturned by new evidence? If it doesn't make sense to consider alternatives to consensus opinion from time to time why don't we just accept Genesis? That was the consensus opinion of the natural philosophers for centuries based on the evidence after all.

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08-10-2014, 10:17 AM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
(08-10-2014 10:05 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 10:01 AM)Chas Wrote:  Still conflating hard science and textual criticism?

Still rejecting history as a legitimate field of study (isn't Carrier a historian)?

I'm not rejecting history - quit being fucking stupid.

You are really not listening. History is not a hard science. You can't compare them.

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08-10-2014, 10:27 AM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
(08-10-2014 10:17 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 10:05 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  Still rejecting history as a legitimate field of study (isn't Carrier a historian)?

I'm not rejecting history - quit being fucking stupid.

You are really not listening. History is not a hard science. You can't compare them.
Tell Carrier to give up his degree then... maybe he should try Intelligent Design instead.. or try to convince people to stop immunizing their children...,
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08-10-2014, 10:28 AM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2014 10:32 AM by anonymous66.)
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
(08-10-2014 10:10 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(08-10-2014 10:08 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  Okay.. so, why is Jesus so special? Why take the time to go against what the experts in the field of history are saying about Jesus (he did exist in history)?

Especially when there are much easier targets.

There are experts in the field that say he didn't exist, at least not in any way as described... so what is it you are implying?

What are such easier targets? The point of Jesus is because his existence is tied inherently to Christianity. If he didn't exist, it makes most Christians understanding and belief in it incorrect.

That's what I mean... it's so much of an agenda (Let's take out the Christian's hero!) that some atheists can't even think straight..
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08-10-2014, 10:30 AM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2014 10:33 AM by anonymous66.)
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
(08-10-2014 09:41 AM)Chas Wrote:  [quote='anonymous66' pid='660550' dateline='1412782292']
Facepalm

Quote:You need some schooling, my friend...

In what?

Logic. Logical fallacies.. Epistemology (I know, it's a big word.. it means the study of how to tell the difference between justified beliefs and opinions). Rational arguments.
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