Poll: Did Jesus Exist?
He was a real person.
Jesus is a complete myth.
He may have been real, but has become so shrouded by myth that we can't know anything about him.
Other- please explain.
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Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
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22-02-2014, 04:02 PM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
(22-02-2014 02:14 PM)Alexandro Wrote:  
(22-02-2014 01:50 PM)jersonf Wrote:  Did Jesus exist? Or was he a myth? Myth, its an amalgamation of previous myths.

Zoroaster pictured above, I believe was the only person who lived and created a religion whilst he was alive.

What about Joseph Smith.
What about L. Ron Hubbard?

Sapere aude
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22-02-2014, 04:17 PM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
The only thing that makes me lean slightly more toward there at least being a human being, or multiple people for whom the stories are attributed to, is realizing that if you were going to completely fabricate the story of Jesus, it’s not very convincing to acquire new recruits by having him killed off, and having failed his mission.

That’s the one thing that really makes me think that there must have at least been a person for whom the mythos of Jesus was later ascribed to. It seems more like something that myths would have to be made up about to explain away this glaring problem, than to make up whole cloth using such a flawed story.

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22-02-2014, 04:18 PM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
(22-02-2014 04:02 PM)f stop Wrote:  
(22-02-2014 02:14 PM)Alexandro Wrote:  What about Joseph Smith.
What about L. Ron Hubbard?

I thought of him too, but not everyone agrees that scientology is a religion. Looks more like a scam to me. Never heard of a homeless person joining it.
Did Bobby Henderson really created a religion (FSM)?
What about the Jedi Church.
Even as an atheist I can tell the difference between faith and mockery.

The real gospel: Jesus went rogue and preached love instead of genocide. God got angry and went old testament style on Jesus's ass, setting him up to be tortured and killed. The End.
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22-02-2014, 04:22 PM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
There were a few people in this area at this time about whom similar stories popped up. It seems likely Jesus was one of those people.
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22-02-2014, 04:27 PM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
I chose the "we don't know" option.

But my spouse....a devout, rock-ribbed, red-necked, steely-eyed born-againer....tells me there's no doubt that jesus exists because her bible tells her so.

End of story....

<sarcasm off>

"People don't go to heaven when they die; they're taken to a special room and burned!" Evil_monster
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22-02-2014, 04:37 PM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
He is both a myth and also likely a historical figure, but the Jesus Christ of myth and the Jesus Christ of reality are two completely separate people. For starters, Jesus Christ is a title, so the man who was eventually ascribed that title had a different name (I've seen the name Yeshua ben Josef thrown around quite a bit).

As those with a familiarity in scholarly biblical studies will tell you, there were 20+ something self-proclaimed prophets wandering around at the time that were making very similar claims to the ones we now attribute to Jesus. It appears that one of them, however, had a much more successful marketing department amongst his followers than the others.

Self-proclaimed prophets are extremely common throughout history, but what is less common is for them to gain a significantly large, devout following. The actions of the followers determine the success of the prophet, not the prophet himself. The Jesus Christ of reality is a mere speck compared to the monolith of his mythology; the legend is literally larger than the man. Much of the story of Jesus has been constructed long after his supposed lifetime, and most of it is just exaggerations which are the results of his followers masturbating to his glory and inflating his achievements, but yes, it is quite likely that a man did exist whose followers spawned the movement we now know as Christianity.

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22-02-2014, 04:41 PM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
(22-02-2014 01:50 PM)jersonf Wrote:  Did Jesus exist? Or was he a myth? Myth, its an amalgamation of previous myths.

Zoroaster pictured above, I believe was the only person who lived and created a religion whilst he was alive.
It's difficult to maintain that Muhammad never lived. He raised an army and took over Arabia, a fact well documented in the secular record.

Guru Nanak, founder of the Sikh religion, was also very likely a real person. He lived about 500 years ago and I would be surprised if he were missing from the secular records.

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22-02-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
(22-02-2014 04:17 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  The only thing that makes me lean slightly more toward there at least being a human being, or multiple people for whom the stories are attributed to, is realizing that if you were going to completely fabricate the story of Jesus, it’s not very convincing to acquire new recruits by having him killed off, and having failed his mission.

That’s the one thing that really makes me think that there must have at least been a person for whom the mythos of Jesus was later ascribed to. It seems more like something that myths would have to be made up about to explain away this glaring problem, than to make up whole cloth using such a flawed story.

(22-02-2014 04:41 PM)f stop Wrote:  
(22-02-2014 01:50 PM)jersonf Wrote:  Did Jesus exist? Or was he a myth? Myth, its an amalgamation of previous myths.

Zoroaster pictured above, I believe was the only person who lived and created a religion whilst he was alive.
It's difficult to maintain that Muhammad never lived. He raised an army and took over Arabia, a fact well documented in the secular record.

Guru Nanak, founder of the Sikh religion, was also very likely a real person. He lived about 500 years ago and I would be surprised if he were missing from the secular records.

Except dying and rising gods where quite the fad. Lots of them were said to have died, and rose. It's fits perfectly with the common mythos of the day.

Muhammad did no such thing. His followers did, and there are many good reasons to think they invented Islam to unify, and politically mold the new empire.

Look at Robert Spencer's videos and books.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-02-2014, 05:52 PM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2014 01:36 AM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
(22-02-2014 05:12 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Except dying and rising gods where quite the fad. Lots of them were said to have died, and rose. It's fits perfectly with the common mythos of the day.
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I agree with that too. It's why I say the inconvenience of the story being the only thing that makes me slightly lean in that direction.

It seems like it's based more on common, known events of the time. Many people at the time were claiming to be the messiah, some were being crucified for it, and some of them managed to gain small cult followings, much as some cult leaders are still able to do today.

It seems likely to me, that one of these people, who more or less did virtually none of the things in the bible, was crucified, and the mythos of the day was utilized in explaining away his inconvenient death to his cult followers. Especially the ones who weren't there to see the thing did not happen.

I certainly don't think plot line of the Jesus character in the bible are things that happened, other than perhaps his being a man who had a messiah complex, was crucified, and had a small but fanatic following. But there were a lot of those at the time. It just seems like it was a story that was spun, based on the zeitgeist, and it took hold. For all we know, there could have been a great number of other similar stories based on other "messiahs" that failed to take hold, but this is the one that, for whatever random luck of the draw, did. The more distance people had from the historical figure, both spatially and in time, the more mythos could be created, because no one was there to know that it didn't happen.

Same reason Christians believe today, all they know is someone else, a long time ago, in a land far far away said it happened, and they were credulous enough to believe it.

The person it was ascribed to could have been virtually anybody, and for all we know didn't even have the name Jesus. How much of the Jesus story is myth, and how much of it is based on the actual person, (i.e., messiah complex, crucified, cult leader, born in Nazareth, had a brother named James, a mother named Mary etc...) and how much is fabricated, or simply preexistant mythos applied to him...I don't know. Even details about where he was born, and his mother's name could very well be bullshit.

I only give a historical figure of "Jesus" any creditably in as much a small dust particle in a cloud can give water vapor a chance to nucleate and form a snow flake. The catalyst looking nothing like the end product, and virtually unidentifiable and over looked. But perhaps a thing...? Perhaps completely fabricated...? Just slightly more like, probabilistically, to for there to at least be a small dust particle of a Jesus figure in there, than not.

I only slightly lean toward something being in of it because it seems more probabilistically likely than not. But I have no strong lean on it either way.

...
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22-02-2014, 05:59 PM
RE: Did Jesus Exist? Or Was He a Myth?
I think that the most likely option is that, his Biblical character is based on (in the most vague way) a real person or mosaic of several people.

Even if his Biblical character was based on a real person, doesn't matter. That would not offer a shred of evidence for any of the supernatural claims for him.

Some historians believe that Hercules was based on a real person. But that the supernatural events related to him are pure myth and legend. Just like Jesus - GodBoy.

In fact, Josephus mentions Hercules many times, and the references are not 3rd century forgeries, like the ones for GodBoy.
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