Poll: Jesus died on the cross or survived the crucifixion?
Jesus never existed
Jesus died on the cross
Jesus survived the crucifixion
the body was stolen
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Did Jesus survived the crucifixion?
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15-04-2016, 04:13 AM
RE: Did Jesus survived the crucifixion?
(14-04-2016 06:48 PM)Alla Wrote:  I have no reason to reject my faith. Give me one reason why I have to reject my faith in Christ.
It's up to you, really. You can choose to believe whatever you want.

As for the rest of us atheists on this forum we tend to use an epistemology of evidence (in cases where claims are extraordinary or where there is a price to pay if we have been mislead or misinformed) . If a claim is made, we tend to ask for evidence in support of the claim. Especially when the claim is exceptional.

A claim about some guy dying and coming back to life three days later is exceptional. A three day old body in a warm climate would generally be pretty rancid and has never been known to get up and walk around.

If such a claim is made we tend to ask for supporting evidence rather than to take the claimant's word for it.

If your mother tells you that she just watched the latest episode of Game of Thrones, it's something that is ordinary. You don't tend to ask her for evidence supporting this claim. You have faith in what she tells you because you trust her, her claim is ordinary and has little to no impact on you.

With regards to the Jesus claim, it is extraordinary (one of a kind), it has people joining a club (Jesus worship), spreading the word, giving money to churches, putting pressure on their children and potential partners, doubting their own ability to make moral judgements and hence becoming dependent on their church leaders.
And into conflict with people and things that are un-Christian e.g. Muslims, atheists, yoga, Harry Potter, gays, and is some cases medical treatment etc
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15-04-2016, 07:05 AM
RE: Did Jesus survived the crucifixion?
(31-03-2016 07:30 PM)Leo Wrote:  Ok I'm aware this topic could be based in a fictional story. Maybe Jesus never existed and maybe zero percent of the story of the gospels actually happen. But maybe there is a chance , that Jesus character could be based in a actual historical person. Maybe Jesus was one of the 100,000 messiahs wannabe or failed messiahs killed by the romans. Maybe he lead a revolution . He was caught and was crucified by the romans because of sedition. The gospels contradict themselves. According to John Jesus was crucified sometime after noon and was taken down from the cross a little before sunset. So Jesus was 6 hours max in the cross according to John. According to Mark Jesus was crucified at 9:00 am , died at 3:00 pm and was taken down from the cross a little before sunset . So Jesus was on the cross 9 hours max according to Mark. The gospel of Matthew and Luke never said when the crucifiction start but both indicated that Jesus was crucified before noon. So the synoptic gospels put Jesus on the cross 9 hours max. Pilate was surprised Jesus "died" so soon because death by crucifixion took atleast 2 days and often 3-4 days. I don't believe in the resurrection bullshit so I'm in the camp of people that suspect if Jesus actually existed, he survived the crucifixion. Most muslims believe Jesus was never crucified. A minority believe that maybe he was crucified but survived the crucifixion. But putting muslims aside ( I don't believe in the shitty Koran book ).
What do you guys think ? Jesus died on the cross or survived the crucifixion?

Jesus got crucified? I was reading that book man!
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15-04-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: Did Jesus survived the crucifixion?
(14-04-2016 07:04 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I'm not an expert but I do like studying evolutionary biology and according to the theory of evolution, all humans descend from simple life forms that existed billions of years ago and eventually around 200,000 years ago the homo sapien species emerged but of course we have evolved and adapted since then tremendously but even if we were to trace our DNA back we may end up with the genetic "Eve" who was our "mother" but we can't descend from just one woman or one couple of humans. Our DNA is so complex and diverse it wouldn't be possible, instead we descend from a group of about 10,000-15,000 humans who lived around 100,000 years ago. There is also a genetic link between us and other apes who share a common ancestor, we even share useless genes with Chimps that we don't share with any other species so we're clearly related.

Actually, we do all descend from one female, "Mitochondrial Eve" and from one male "Y-chromosomal Adam". They were not, however, a couple.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-04-2016, 10:02 AM (This post was last modified: 15-04-2016 10:27 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Did Jesus survived the crucifixion?
If it happened, (and I think they amalgamated a few "dying and rising" messiah figures into one, as that was the fad), and I repeat "if", then in my view, the kernel of truth in the whole thing was :

a. the "ruckus" in the temple, (overturning the money-changers' tables)
the entire economy of the city of Jerusalem was built on religious tourism ... Jews had to worship there at least once in a life-time, (like Muslims doing the Hajj). It's hard to over-estimate that, the importance of that economic system, and the revenue it brought in ... any disruption of that was a huge threat to the priests' income. There were fees for EVERYTHING. Doing the sacrifices, getting the ritual cleansings, getting and keeping alive the vast quantities of animals for sacrifices, etc.

b. The disruption in the temple would have been an offense that came under the *standing order* to execute "trouble-makers" during the Pax Romana, (requiring no trial ... there certainly was no trial. It was Passover weekend, and Roman aristocrats never bothered with peasants as the gospels describe). So much of the language of the gospels/passion narratives is overlaid with theological assumptions/implications from much later periods, (and flagrantly so, "so that scripture might be fulfilled").

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein It is objectively immoral to kill innocent babies. Please stick to the guilty babies.
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