Did Mary exist?
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10-12-2017, 05:53 PM
Did Mary exist?
I stumbled onto a debate going on in the Reddit 'debate a Christian' section titled "There was no Mary". The question being posed is if Jesus didn't exist, as many atheists think, then it follows that Mary didn't exist either.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAChristia...s_no_mary/

So, being kinda lazy and not very original today I thought I'd pose the same question here.

Popcorn

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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10-12-2017, 06:00 PM
Did Mary exist?
Then who was James' mother?

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10-12-2017, 06:07 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
I'm sorry for her, if she did exist. Her eldest son disowned his real dad and then died a criminal's death; she didn't even get the t-shirt.

Or, if the Bible story is to be credited, gawd the father raped her and forced her into a marriage with someone else to cover up the rape.
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10-12-2017, 06:10 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
If not then does that mean her little lamb doesn't exist either?

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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10-12-2017, 07:01 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
She did, and she had a sleep disorder. Rolleyes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormition_o...her_of_God
The Church of the Dormission, ... "dormission" (*falling asleep*) was (is ?) a popular shrine in Jerusalem. So she must have existed, right ? Facepalm

It's funny, the Romans (RC Church) have no dogma about whether she died, (which she would not have to have done, as she had no original sin), or just fell asleep, they "assume" (oh wait ... no) they celebrate the "assumption" (on August 15, I think).
At least they admit it's an "assumption". Angel

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein It is objectively immoral to kill innocent babies. Please stick to the guilty babies.
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10-12-2017, 07:09 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
There is no reason to assume that any character of the Bible existed, unless there is independent evidence found outside the Bible. Archaeologists don't even believe there was an Exodus.

"Mainstream history and archaeology now consider the Exodus never to have happened, and the story to be an entirely fictional narrative put together between the 8th and 5th centuries BCE."

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_Exodus
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10-12-2017, 07:18 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
(10-12-2017 07:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  She did, and she had a sleep disorder. Rolleyes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormition_o...her_of_God
The Church of the Dormission, ... "dormission" (*falling asleep*) was (is ?) a popular shrine in Jerusalem. So she must have existed, right ? Facepalm

It's funny, the Romans (RC Church) have no dogma about whether she died, (which she would not have to have done, as she had no original sin), or just fell asleep, they "assume" (oh wait ... no) they celebrate the "assumption" (on August 15, I think).
At least they admit it's an "assumption". Angel

They assume it's an assumption. There is plenty of mostly Catholic paintings of Mary's death.

[Image: death-assumption-virgin-detail.jpg]

(I remembering studying this painting ^ ^ ^ because it uses foreshortening in it's execution, which was another thing lost after the fall of Rome.)

There are many more paintings of Mary floating around in heaven in a "Here I am, everybody. I finally got here!" kind of mode. According to this painting when you get to heaven your skin returns to it's youthful peaches and cream beauty. And whaddya know, Mary was a blonde!

[Image: SOD-0815-SolemnityoftheAssumptionofMary-790x480.jpg]

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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10-12-2017, 07:20 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
(10-12-2017 07:18 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  And whaddya know, Mary was a blonde!

Like most Near Eastern women. Tongue

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein It is objectively immoral to kill innocent babies. Please stick to the guilty babies.
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10-12-2017, 07:22 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
Nah. That was just the wind crying.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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10-12-2017, 07:23 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
(10-12-2017 07:09 PM)Nicator Wrote:  There is no reason to assume that any character of the Bible existed, unless there is independent evidence found outside the Bible. Archaeologists don't even believe there was an Exodus.

"Mainstream history and archaeology now consider the Exodus never to have happened, and the story to be an entirely fictional narrative put together between the 8th and 5th centuries BCE."

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_Exodus

There is reason to believe someone like Jesus existed. It's not a stretch, the era and location was a hotbed of wonder workers and wannabe messiahs. The key though is someone like Jesus. That's where it all depends on what you mean. Was there literally a Son of God wandering around doing Cool Shit? Of course not, but were NT narratives cut completely from the the imagination? Unlikely, as it seems to have (IMHO) enough human quirks, foibles and fingerprints. I think there really was a deluded cult leader who at the advertised time convinced some people he was who the NT says he is...does that mean "Jesus really existed"? I dunno.

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