Did Mary exist?
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10-12-2017, 07:26 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
There is a real Peter Parker who lives in New York.
Probably several actually, but they aren't Spider-Man.

I'm sure there were a couple young girls named Mary who had kids at the tender age of 13 in the Middle East.

Some of the best fiction contains a little truth.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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10-12-2017, 07:37 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
(10-12-2017 06:10 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  If not then does that mean her little lamb doesn't exist either?

I thought Mary's lamb was Jesus. Oh... wait... Blush

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10-12-2017, 07:39 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
(10-12-2017 07:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  She did, and she had a sleep disorder. Rolleyes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormition_o...her_of_God
The Church of the Dormission, ... "dormission" (*falling asleep*) was (is ?) a popular shrine in Jerusalem. So she must have existed, right ? Facepalm

It's funny, the Romans (RC Church) have no dogma about whether she died, (which she would not have to have done, as she had no original sin), or just fell asleep, they "assume" (oh wait ... no) they celebrate the "assumption" (on August 15, I think).
At least they admit it's an "assumption". Angel

Oh Bucky...this may be the former Baptist in me talking, but why not mention how both the Assumption of Mary and the Immaculate Conception (that she was conceived without sin) are the only two Ex Cathedra statements made by the Papacy in its history, which make things "infallible" doctrine? Both of which were basically bowing to the demands of the widespread folk beliefs that already existed among the population. I really wasn't going to comment, until I saw this article in my feed, posted by a priest, about how during an exorcism, the Devil himself admitted to the Immaculate Conception...30 years before it was declared doctrine. Somehow, the article fails to mention that the Immaculate Conception was already a widespread belief at the time.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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10-12-2017, 07:58 PM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2017 08:11 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Did Mary exist?
(10-12-2017 07:39 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(10-12-2017 07:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  She did, and she had a sleep disorder. Rolleyes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormition_o...her_of_God
The Church of the Dormission, ... "dormission" (*falling asleep*) was (is ?) a popular shrine in Jerusalem. So she must have existed, right ? Facepalm

It's funny, the Romans (RC Church) have no dogma about whether she died, (which she would not have to have done, as she had no original sin), or just fell asleep, they "assume" (oh wait ... no) they celebrate the "assumption" (on August 15, I think).
At least they admit it's an "assumption". Angel

Oh Bucky...this may be the former Baptist in me talking, but why not mention how both the Assumption of Mary and the Immaculate Conception (that she was conceived without sin) are the only two Ex Cathedra statements made by the Papacy in its history, which make things "infallible" doctrine? Both of which were basically bowing to the demands of the widespread folk beliefs that already existed among the population. I really wasn't going to comment, until I saw this article in my feed, posted by a priest, about how during an exorcism, the Devil himself admitted to the Immaculate Conception...30 years before it was declared doctrine. Somehow, the article fails to mention that the Immaculate Conception was already a widespread belief at the time.

Well they *had* to cook up the Immaculate Conception, or Mary would not be good enough to be the mother of a god.

In all fairness, the Hebrew honorific "son of God" was accorded to many famous and righteous men, generals, politicians other famous people .. it never meant a "literal" filial relationship, as strict monotheism was the rule at the time of Jesus. The idea that anyone would have co-equal status with Yahweh was unthinkable.
The Hebrew "heaven" had many divine beings, but Yahweh was at the top....alone.
It is fascinating reading the council proceedings where they invent the "filioque procedit" clause in the (Nicaean) creed ... they knew how weird it seemed.

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10-12-2017, 08:18 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
"Let It Be."

I've just recently grown rudimentary legs and made the move from water to land.
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10-12-2017, 09:13 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
(10-12-2017 07:39 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  ... the Immaculate Conception (that she was conceived without sin)...

What did God do to have Mary conceived without sin and why couldn't he just do that for everyone instead of all that Jesus nonsense?

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10-12-2017, 09:16 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
There is no way to definitively determine whether Jesus was a single historical character or not (leaving aside whether he was also a miracle-working god-man). The preponderance of evidence as I see it is that he was either a composite character or an outright invention. The miraculous / fantastical mythos I reject out of hand.

Given that, pretty much any of the other characters described in the gospels are apt to be either fabricated, or had quite a lot of ... liberties taken in the telling.

I have discussed elsewhere / before my reasoning regarding the historicity of Jesus ... I can briefly lay it out again if you ask but otherwise I won't rehash it.
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11-12-2017, 02:22 AM
RE: Did Mary exist?
If this James guy really existed (I'm not sure how strong the case is) then of course he had a mother. Whether she's called Mary or not is kinda irrelevant, and so is every other detail about her. Being the pretend mother of a fictional character isn't really an attribute. I mean, she probably had other kids too, and you could pretend one of those was Jesus, but that means nothing also. Maybe one of those got crucified for being a dick.

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11-12-2017, 04:39 AM
RE: Did Mary exist?
I'd say she existed. Some dude named Yeshua was probably crucified. He must have had a mother. Mary in the NT is not very prominent. If you strip away all the virgin bullcrap there's not much really. All the buzz around Mary is due to the RC church. Seems like a very mundane thing to make up..
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11-12-2017, 05:08 AM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2017 05:12 AM by M. Linoge.)
RE: Did Mary exist?
There is no reason to doubt the existence of a teenager, named Mary, giving birth to a child out of wedlock (especially in a story with three older men dropping off costly items afterwards).

"Throughout history, every mystery, ever solved, has turned out to be; Not magic."
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