Did Mary exist?
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14-12-2017, 08:44 AM
RE: Did Mary exist?
Vaguely on topic....





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14-12-2017, 12:55 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
Didn't Jesus disown Mary?
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14-12-2017, 01:23 PM (This post was last modified: 14-12-2017 01:39 PM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Did Mary exist?
My "view" on this is that Mary was the daughter of a pretender to a feudal Royal. If you read Ralph Ellis, which is not encouraged around here, he tells the story of a Syrian "royal" line which left Persia and settled in Edessa or modern Sanliurfu, Turkey. The Queen, Helena, married her own son, such was the custom back then, and the son was taken hostage by the Romans and spent 14 years in Rome.

So, I figure that, in line with the custom of son/mother marriages, he got her pregnant, and when he returned he found he had a daughter, who was a virgin, so he bonked her. She is the "Mary", although god knows what her name was. She then had a son, or maybe twins. One of them was the basis for the Jesus character. She then tags along in the Jesus story as Mary Magdelaine who Jesus treats, to the chagrin of his disciples, better than them. They then go through a marriage at Cana, because he is following the tradition of son/mother marriage.

These people considered themselves to be "gods" so this explains the idea of a virgin being impregnated by a "god".

This theme of mother/son marriage runs through history. It's called Royal Incest and is the theme of the film "Anonymous" in which Queen Elizabeth I has a child by Edward de Vere, namely the Earl of Southampton and Edward de Vere is also, as it turns out, the son of Queen Elizabeth. The plot of the film, which is taken from the literature supporting the Prince Tudor Shakesperean Authorship theory, explains why the Sonnets were dedicated to the Earl of Southampton, giving the impression that Shakepeare was homosexual. It also explains, if it is true, why the Earl of Southampton was not executed when he joined in uprising by the Earl of Essex to overthrow Queen Elizabeth. It is said by some historians that Essex was also a son of Queen Elizabeth, the "Virgin Queen". The story goes that Southampton was saved execution and merely jailed because of the intervention of de Vere, who was QEI's favourite lover. The theme of royal incest is also a theme of Shakespeare's play, Pericles, Prince of Tyre. in which the King marries his own daughter, but no one is supposed to know, on pain of death.

I can't vouch for any of this, since I wasn't there, but it would explain why, in the New Testament, Jesus' birth would be known about by the three kings. This type of incest would ensure the purest of royal lineage, n'est pas?

Or, it could be something else and I'm just making all this up because I'm bored.

PS. This also ties in with one of what I call my "Fun Theories", that the Holy Spirit is what Mary was told she was experiencing when she had sex that night and the Holy Spirit "came" over her. This is a theory of the meaning of the "Holy Spirit" which is part of the Trinity of the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit. It's a theory which I myself came upon myself while toggling between various internet sites in the search for deeper meaning in life.
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14-12-2017, 02:02 PM (This post was last modified: 14-12-2017 02:24 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Did Mary exist?
OR, just as scholars have suggested for decades, if not centuries, since we know the Gospel of Matthew was specifically addressed to Hebrew communities, which is one of the reasons the editors inserted the reference to a "child being a sign" (*not* a virgin birth). http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...3#pid49743

The "messianic" passages of the Old Testament (according to Christians), foresaw that the non-Jewish nations of the world would come to adore the Jewish messiah (or nation) and would bring (international) things of great value.
Isaiah 60:5-6: "...The riches of the sea will flow to you, the wealth of nations come to you; camels in throngs will cover you, and dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; everyone in Sheba will come, bringing gold and incense and singing the praise of the Lord."
Psalms, 72:10-11: "The kings of Tarshish and of the islands will pay him tribute, the kings of Sheba and Seba will offer gifts; all kings will do him homage."
Jeremiah 6:20 and Ezekiel 27:22 mention incense and spices.

We know the big trade in frankincense and myrrh was with Arabia.
The reason there are three kings, is there are 3 gifts.

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14-12-2017, 02:13 PM (This post was last modified: 14-12-2017 02:17 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Did Mary exist?
(14-12-2017 12:55 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Didn't Jesus disown Mary?

Not so much. In the story of the/a wedding (at Cana in John), Mary tells him they were running out of wine. The gospel says he replied to her in a way, "brusquely" (over which countless pages of BS were written), "What is that to me ?". I seem to recall there is a "sign" source document, (much like the Q document) as well as Q. If Q is the source of Mark, and the "messianic secret" was the object for telling the incident (hiding Jesus' real identity until later), then that makes sense. I'd have to read the John version to see how it gets changed, if that used a "sign source". There's also the thing where he says "Son, behold your mother", on the cross ... I don't think that's interpreted as "disown".

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14-12-2017, 04:40 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
(14-12-2017 01:23 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  My "view" on this is that Mary was the daughter of a pretender to a feudal Royal. If you read Ralph Ellis, which is not encouraged around here, he tells the story of a Syrian "royal" line which left Persia and settled in Edessa or modern Sanliurfu, Turkey. The Queen, Helena, married her own son, such was the custom back then, and the son was taken hostage by the Romans and spent 14 years in Rome.

So, I figure that, in line with the custom of son/mother marriages, he got her pregnant, and when he returned he found he had a daughter, who was a virgin, so he bonked her. She is the "Mary", although god knows what her name was. She then had a son, or maybe twins. One of them was the basis for the Jesus character. She then tags along in the Jesus story as Mary Magdelaine who Jesus treats, to the chagrin of his disciples, better than them. They then go through a marriage at Cana, because he is following the tradition of son/mother marriage.

These people considered themselves to be "gods" so this explains the idea of a virgin being impregnated by a "god".

This theme of mother/son marriage runs through history. It's called Royal Incest and is the theme of the film "Anonymous" in which Queen Elizabeth I has a child by Edward de Vere, namely the Earl of Southampton and Edward de Vere is also, as it turns out, the son of Queen Elizabeth. The plot of the film, which is taken from the literature supporting the Prince Tudor Shakesperean Authorship theory, explains why the Sonnets were dedicated to the Earl of Southampton, giving the impression that Shakepeare was homosexual. It also explains, if it is true, why the Earl of Southampton was not executed when he joined in uprising by the Earl of Essex to overthrow Queen Elizabeth. It is said by some historians that Essex was also a son of Queen Elizabeth, the "Virgin Queen". The story goes that Southampton was saved execution and merely jailed because of the intervention of de Vere, who was QEI's favourite lover. The theme of royal incest is also a theme of Shakespeare's play, Pericles, Prince of Tyre. in which the King marries his own daughter, but no one is supposed to know, on pain of death.

I can't vouch for any of this, since I wasn't there, but it would explain why, in the New Testament, Jesus' birth would be known about by the three kings. This type of incest would ensure the purest of royal lineage, n'est pas?

Or, it could be something else and I'm just making all this up because I'm bored.

PS. This also ties in with one of what I call my "Fun Theories", that the Holy Spirit is what Mary was told she was experiencing when she had sex that night and the Holy Spirit "came" over her. This is a theory of the meaning of the "Holy Spirit" which is part of the Trinity of the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit. It's a theory which I myself came upon myself while toggling between various internet sites in the search for deeper meaning in life.


I need to check that guy then.
Feudalism wasn't a thing at that time tough, so I'm going to go in a bit biased, but the thing that you mention about Mary and Jesus being married reminded me to (what has been reconstructed and speculated about) a lot of Celtic and don’t take my word for this one) east mediterranean central myths, in which the main goddess birthed the main god (the sun almost always), married him, got pregnant with him, and birthed him once the previous incarnation died (Winter solstice. Alternatively, the son killed the father and married the mother, traditional family stuff...)
That myth was totally integrated in Christianity (at least in the atlantic coast of Europe), so maybe that is the pattern he is noticing? Or maybe it was the one the stuff came up from? It would explain the obsession of sun based religions for virgin births, and would go along nicely with the whole “birth o a star” (yeah, I know people back then didn’t know the sun was a star, but in the northern hemisphere, at that time, the end of Fall and beginning of Winter, when the God was born, was marked by Virgo, and specially Spika, coming out through the horizon. (I know cult in Iberia was organiced that way in antiquity, but I honestly have no clue of wheter it was like that originally in Palestine or if it was addapted)

Either way, “Mary” though seems to be an allegorical name, if u ask me. There is no way anyone either lying or telling the truth ended up with all non evil females being called Mary otherwise
The trinity though, I thought it was kind of a compromise the RC Church fathers had to reach to fix a bunch of biblical contradictions as best as they could. Was it really a thing when the myth started?

"Just kill them all. The Lord will sort them out" -Cesáreo de Heisterbach-
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14-12-2017, 05:19 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
But of course Mary existed.

She got knocked up by a time traveler whom we all know as Antonio Baderas, and she gave birth to a wanna-be fail-boat Christ who got strung up on a few sticks by the Romans and whom was spit upon and laughed it until he kicked the bucket.

Drinking Beverage

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14-12-2017, 05:28 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
(14-12-2017 05:19 PM)Free Wrote:  But of course Mary existed.

She got knocked up by a time traveler whom we all know as Antonio Baderas, and she gave birth to a wanna-be fail-boat Christ who got strung up on a few sticks by the Romans and whom was spit upon and laughed it until he kicked the bucket.

Drinking Beverage

Zorro was Jesus' father ? Facepalm
Now it *all* makes sense.

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14-12-2017, 05:46 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
(11-12-2017 02:22 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  If this James guy really existed (I'm not sure how strong the case is) then of course he had a mother. Whether she's called Mary or not is kinda irrelevant, and so is every other detail about her. Being the pretend mother of a fictional character isn't really an attribute. I mean, she probably had other kids too, and you could pretend one of those was Jesus, but that means nothing also. Maybe one of those got crucified for being a dick.

Like this jesus guy, this "james" only exists in works of fiction. Coincidence?

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14-12-2017, 11:16 PM
RE: Did Mary exist?
(14-12-2017 05:19 PM)Free Wrote:  But of course Mary existed.

She got knocked up by a time traveler whom we all know as Antonio Baderas, and she gave birth to a wanna-be fail-boat Christ who got strung up on a few sticks by the Romans and whom was spit upon and laughed it until he kicked the bucket.

Drinking Beverage

Boy, Mary knew what she was doing! 0.0 Way to pick!

"Just kill them all. The Lord will sort them out" -Cesáreo de Heisterbach-
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