Did Mom Make a Sound Argument???
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01-02-2014, 03:02 PM
RE: Did Mom Make a Sound Argument???
(01-02-2014 11:44 AM)anidominus Wrote:  
(31-01-2014 05:57 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Oh okay. I didn't know that. Now that I do I'll just believe and accept whatever you say.

Fine with me even though that's not why I said that. I simply said that to let the reader understand that I didn't simply go to chapter and verse and quote scripture.

I couldn't care less if you believe all of what I say or none of it. Once you've heard it, you've heard it. I can't make you believe or keep you from believing.


Oh cool! Then I've got a great way to save you a lot of time, because we've all already heard it all before, so no need for you to say it.

You do realize that, right? You are not sharing anything new with us. Just recycling the same old shit.

...
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01-02-2014, 03:40 PM (This post was last modified: 01-02-2014 03:45 PM by Drunkin Druid.)
RE: Did Mom Make a Sound Argument???
Perhaps your mom is right. Perhaps your mom has a good understanding of scripture. Perhaps she knows it quite deeply. The problem here is that people can have a deep understanding of all kinds of mythologies but that doesn't mean they're true...
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01-02-2014, 04:36 PM
RE: Did Mom Make a Sound Argument???
(01-02-2014 12:44 PM)anidominus Wrote:  
(31-01-2014 09:09 PM)freetoreason Wrote:  Adinomus is right that you have to distinguish between moral, civil and ceremonial law. Paul is clear that after Jesus the ceremonial and civil laws are no longer in effect. This is what much of Galatians is about, as well as Hebrews. These annulled laws would include those about food, sacrifice, penalties for crime, etc. These were in place to preserve the Jewish nation until Jesus could come as the final sacrifice to which all these laws pointed.

What remains in place is the moral law, which would include homosexuality. So your mom's response is consistent with mainstream Christian theology. I think the best response to this is to point out the gross immorality of god's action in both the old and new testaments, which makes the idea of him as a moral lawgiver absurd. Christians have yet to devise a decent response to this argument. It's so bad that WLC will squirm and point to another author's book when asked about it.

When they say you have no objective source for morality, you can point out that your evolved genetically-derived sense of justice is clearly superior to their twisted objective bible-derived source. Besides, god constantly applies situational ethics in the bible, which is how he justifies actions like genocide ( had to protect Israel).

The reason you haven't found a "decent response" to "this argument" is because you refuse to accept the Sovereign Authority of God. He has every right to punish people who break his laws. He has every right to give mercy to some and not others. It happens all the time, even today in the US. Some people get executed some get life, others cut deals.

You missed the point. I'm talking about god's sovereign morality not even coming close to measuring up to that of 21st century human beings who make no claims about holiness. By our legal standards, this god would either have been executed, given a thousands of years sentence, or relegated to a mental institution, depending on which jurisdiction got a hold of his ugly ass first. Of course him being a spirit, keeping him off the streets could be a problem.
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01-02-2014, 10:00 PM
RE: Did Mom Make a Sound Argument???
(01-02-2014 12:47 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 12:41 PM)anidominus Wrote:  When it comes to morality, there is one question you always start with...

1) Did God give us this morality or
2) Did we learn it through trial and error or
3) Did someone institute it for political reasons.

This is why we can't have nice things... Dodgy

I saw that later and just laughed. Essentially, its 1 question broken down in to 3 parts. But yeah, that was funny.
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01-02-2014, 10:10 PM
RE: Did Mom Make a Sound Argument???
(01-02-2014 12:55 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 12:21 PM)anidominus Wrote:  I can only speculate as to why Satan is mentioned when/how/why. And that speculation is simply this... Satan ultimately doesn't matter. He is zero competition for God and he only has power over us that we let him.

With that being said, he does have power. He's influential and he does have a kind of legal authority over the lost. If you're not under the governorship of Jesus, then you are under the governorship of Satan. I want to say again, I don't understand fully that legal relationship because its never been outlined. We know much more about the arrangement between Man and Jesus.

Yabut, if Satan's power is much less than Jesus', and we can opt out of Jesus' governance if we want, then why can't we just opt out of Satan's governance? I don't see where this is a problem.

You're not opting out, you are refusing to opt-in to to Jesus governorship.
Because you can not opt out of Satan's governorship. Regardless of his level of power he still has some authority here.

How can I describe this? Imagine a geographical location that is surrounded by an infinite amount of water. This geographical location has two governments both utilizing the same infrastructure. You have to pick which of the two governments you wish to be a citizen of. One government will add you to its ranks against your wishes, but the other will add you only if you ask and can protect you from the other one.

This is the most simplistic way I can describe it.
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01-02-2014, 10:17 PM
RE: Did Mom Make a Sound Argument???
(01-02-2014 12:41 PM)anidominus Wrote:  I don't know if you are correct about the word abomination being used for eating shell-fish but regardless.
So much for your "1,000 hours" of Bible study. Laughat

Leviticus 11:9-12 (King James Version)
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. 10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: 11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. 12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

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01-02-2014, 10:21 PM
RE: Did Mom Make a Sound Argument???
(01-02-2014 10:17 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 12:41 PM)anidominus Wrote:  I don't know if you are correct about the word abomination being used for eating shell-fish but regardless.
So much for your "1,000 hours" of Bible study. Laughat

Leviticus 11:9-12 (King James Version)
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. 10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: 11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. 12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Yeah, I wasn't going to point it out, but that was a pretty obvious miss.

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01-02-2014, 10:22 PM
RE: Did Mom Make a Sound Argument???
(01-02-2014 01:15 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 12:21 PM)anidominus Wrote:  From my knowledge of Satan, or Lucifer as he was known in Heaven, was a worship leader of sorts. He received the praises of Angels and then he himself was to Praise God. But apparently he decided to keep the praise for himself. Why?

Do you have a citation for this? Again, it's something I've never heard. I know a lot of your post was speculation, but this part looks as though you believe it to have another source.

It's another thing I've never heard, so I'm wondering if it comes from Dante's Inferno or, perhaps from Paradise Lost. Both are basically Bible fan-fiction, but you'd be surprised how many things from those books get incorporated into your average Christian's world-view.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?...519AA4iBWg

This a link to someone asking the same question.

I've never read any of those books. Many stories are influenced by other stories. So it wouldn't surprise me that something spoken about in Chrisanity sounds like something from somewhere else.

For example, Darth Vader was born of a virgin. I don't know what George was trying to say. I don't know if he is Jewish or not lol, but to me he got that entire virgin birth thing from somewhere. Who knows what people will think if some catastrophe happens and records start getting lost and mixed up. some people may believe Christ was a copy from the Vader story.

Sometimes I wonder how many stories do we think is new, was simply handed down from 5,000 years ago and characters and location were pretty much the only thing that changed.

I'm a firm believer that every thing that has been visualized in film has either happened already or will happen. It may not be exact but its a ball park. I don't believe you can imagine anything outside the realm of God's mind so if we imagine it then some kind of way it must be possible. I'm really looking forward to those light sabers.
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01-02-2014, 10:34 PM
RE: Did Mom Make a Sound Argument???
(01-02-2014 10:22 PM)anidominus Wrote:  I'm a firm believer that every thing that has been visualized in film has either happened already or will happen. It may not be exact but its a ball park. I don't believe you can imagine anything outside the realm of God's mind so if we imagine it then some kind of way it must be possible. I'm really looking forward to those light sabers.

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02-02-2014, 12:09 AM
RE: Did Mom Make a Sound Argument???
(01-02-2014 10:10 PM)anidominus Wrote:  You're not opting out, you are refusing to opt-in to to Jesus governorship.
Because you can not opt out of Satan's governorship. Regardless of his level of power he still has some authority here.

How can I describe this? Imagine a geographical location that is surrounded by an infinite amount of water. This geographical location has two governments both utilizing the same infrastructure. You have to pick which of the two governments you wish to be a citizen of. One government will add you to its ranks against your wishes, but the other will add you only if you ask and can protect you from the other one.

This is the most simplistic way I can describe it.

I'll give you this much, it does seem pretty simplistic. Drinking Beverage

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
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