Did the Jesus part ruin it?
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03-05-2016, 10:43 AM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2016 10:48 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Did the Jesus part ruin it?
(28-04-2016 04:13 AM)Typho2k Wrote:  If Christianity was the real deal,
do you think the 'Jesus came down in human form (how convenient if someone ask why god looked so humanly) to teach and sacrifice himself' part would exist?

If I had made up a religion and wanted to claim I was God, I would have to do it the same way the bible did.

Surely the part in the New Testament where Mary says she was "visited" by the Holy Spirit and wound up pregnant was just a way of saying she had sex with her Dad. Or her brother, or both, them being the same person.

If you read on it then says that Jesus "is" the son of Joseph and that their family go back to David and beyond to Adam who was the "son of God". So he is the son of a "god-man". It's not really that complicated unless you want to say, on the one hand, that the ancients believed in a purely metaphysical god while, on the other, their Kings/Pharoahs/Emperors were telling them that THEY were god. Presumably no one listened to the ruler who was saying this, them all being free thinking intellectual peasants, or something. I mean, cheese, cumon.
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03-05-2016, 11:04 AM
RE: Did the Jesus part ruin it?
(28-04-2016 05:33 PM)Alla Wrote:  God became mortal man
WOW! Now I understand how God KNOWS what it means to be human(mortal man)

God experienced physical pain and physical death.
WOW, now I understand how God KNOWS what pain and death are.

I know I'm already discussing this whole line in our "natural laws" conversation, but I just thought of this, and wanted to keep it separate:

Now, its entirely possible that I'm misunderstanding LDS theology, but I thought a key difference from other forms of Christianity is that people can become gods of their own universes, and that the god of this universe lived in another, before. Is that correct?

If so, wouldn't God already know what it's like to be mortal?
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03-05-2016, 11:32 AM
RE: Did the Jesus part ruin it?
(03-05-2016 11:04 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(28-04-2016 05:33 PM)Alla Wrote:  God became mortal man
WOW! Now I understand how God KNOWS what it means to be human(mortal man)

God experienced physical pain and physical death.
WOW, now I understand how God KNOWS what pain and death are.

I know I'm already discussing this whole line in our "natural laws" conversation, but I just thought of this, and wanted to keep it separate:

Now, its entirely possible that I'm misunderstanding LDS theology, but I thought a key difference from other forms of Christianity is that people can become gods of their own universes, and that the god of this universe lived in another, before. Is that correct?

If so, wouldn't God already know what it's like to be mortal?

Good question. God Father already knew. But His children don't know until they come here(the Earth). We didn't know until we obtained physical bodies.
God Son who is Yahweh aka Jesus Christ didn't know what physical pain and what physical death were until He became mortal man here on Earth.

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03-05-2016, 11:37 AM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2016 11:44 AM by Leo.)
RE: Did the Jesus part ruin it?
(03-05-2016 11:32 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 11:04 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I know I'm already discussing this whole line in our "natural laws" conversation, but I just thought of this, and wanted to keep it separate:

Now, its entirely possible that I'm misunderstanding LDS theology, but I thought a key difference from other forms of Christianity is that people can become gods of their own universes, and that the god of this universe lived in another, before. Is that correct?

If so, wouldn't God already know what it's like to be mortal?

Good question. God Father already knew. But His children don't know until they come here(the Earth). We didn't know until we obtained physical bodies.
God Son who is Yahweh aka Jesus Christ didn't know what physical pain and what physical death were until He became mortal man here on Earth.

What the heck you are talking about ? Jesus isnt Yahweh. According to the Christian legend Jesus is Yahweh son and a different person of the trinity. Chuck Norris is Yahweh father by the way. Chuck Norris is the father of all gods. The most impressive thing about Chuck Norris is that he was born before his father did.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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03-05-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: Did the Jesus part ruin it?
(03-05-2016 11:37 AM)Leo Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 11:32 AM)Alla Wrote:  Good question. God Father already knew. But His children don't know until they come here(the Earth). We didn't know until we obtained physical bodies.
God Son who is Yahweh aka Jesus Christ didn't know what physical pain and what physical death were until He became mortal man here on Earth.

What the heck you are talking about ? Jesus isnt Yahweh. According to the Christian legend Jesus is Yahweh son and a different person of the trinity. Chuck Norris is Yahweh father by the way. Chuck Norris is the father of all gods. The most impressive thing about Chuck Norris is that he was born before his father did.
'Leo, I am telling my old virtual friend RobbyPants that Yahweh is Jesus according to LDS Doctrine.

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03-05-2016, 02:37 PM
RE: Did the Jesus part ruin it?
(03-05-2016 02:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 11:37 AM)Leo Wrote:  What the heck you are talking about ? Jesus isnt Yahweh. According to the Christian legend Jesus is Yahweh son and a different person of the trinity. Chuck Norris is Yahweh father by the way. Chuck Norris is the father of all gods. The most impressive thing about Chuck Norris is that he was born before his father did.
'Leo, I am telling my old virtual friend RobbyPants that Yahweh is Jesus according to LDS Doctrine.
Are you really... because now you're saying something different from mere posts ago. Here you say yhwh did know but before you said he couldn't know because you knew that and it would conflict with natural laws. Then you added god has natural laws we don't know.. making your claim of knowing this untrustable

So what is it. Because you do an awful lot of claiming that you Know things yet follow it up with other things.l or retactonary claims without ever acknowledging the retraction

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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03-05-2016, 02:44 PM
RE: Did the Jesus part ruin it?
RobbyPants Wrote:From where did this matter come? It was either already there or it wasn't.
So, Genesis does NOT claim that God created matter. I am glad we both know it.
Genesis does not claim that God creates things out of nothing. Opposite, we can see from Genesis that God uses material to organize things.
God revealed to His prophets Joseph Smith that matter is eternal. Elements(chaos) are eternal they can not be destroyed. Gods know how organize elements and how to re-organize them.
RobbyPants Wrote:Luke 1:35
"35 And the angel said to her,
“The Holy Spirit will come upon you,
and the power of the Most High will overshadow you;
therefore the child to be born[a] will be called holy,
the Son of God."
So, the Holy Spirit came upon Mary AND the POWER OF THE MOST HIGH OVERSHADOWED Mary.
I wonder what the heck this means? RobbyPants, what does it mean "the power of the Most High overshadow someone...?"
Who is this the Most High? Does He have a physical body? Does He have chromosomes?

RobbyPants Wrote:•It's an ad hoc assertion with no evidence. You can't actually back that statement. It's an argument from ignorance.
•If that type of reasoning were valid, it cuts both ways. I could use it against your objecting that brought this whole conversation up. I could simply say that God could use natural processes we just don't understand yet to feel physical pain without being physical.
I agree with your point. But I will add this.
Physical pain is called "physical" for a reason. Only physical body can have physical pain. It is against natural laws.
But when we talk about re-arranging physical elements we know that we don't know many things about re-arranging physical elements. The idea of re-arranging physical elements is NOT something that is against natural laws.

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03-05-2016, 02:50 PM
RE: Did the Jesus part ruin it?
(03-05-2016 02:37 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Are you really... because now you're saying something different from mere posts ago. Here you say yhwh did know but before you said he couldn't know because you knew that and it would conflict with natural laws. Then you added god has natural laws we don't know.. making your claim of knowing this untrustable

So what is it. Because you do an awful lot of claiming that you Know things yet follow it up with other things.l or retactonary claims without ever acknowledging the retraction
I have never said that Yahweh or Jesus Christ knew what physical pain was BEFORE He was born on Earth. Before He obtained physical body He did NOT know what physical pain or physical death were. Only when He became mortal man like we do.
But His God and His Father already knew what physical pain/and death were. He also was a mortal man once.

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03-05-2016, 02:57 PM
RE: Did the Jesus part ruin it?
(03-05-2016 02:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  So, Genesis does NOT claim that God created matter. I am glad we both know it.
Genesis does not claim that God creates things out of nothing. Opposite, we can see from Genesis that God uses material to organize things.
God revealed to His prophets Joseph Smith that matter is eternal. Elements(chaos) are eternal they can not be destroyed. Gods know how organize elements and how to re-organize them.

That is one possible interpretation, but it is not a given. The texts say he "created" things. Now, it is true that it could be short hand for "created a conceptualization by rearranging physical matter", but that is not certain. So, while I can't say you're wrong, you also cannot say you're right in this matter.


(03-05-2016 02:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  So, the Holy Spirit came upon Mary AND the POWER OF THE MOST HIGH OVERSHADOWED Mary.
I wonder what the heck this means? RobbyPants, what does it mean "the power of the Most High overshadow someone...?"
Who is this the Most High? Does He have a physical body? Does He have chromosomes?

Okay. So, how did the Holy Spirit create a physical child inside of Mary without violating "natural laws"? Again, defining what "natural laws" are might be helpful.

Honestly, I feel "I don't know" is a perfectly valid answer to this question, but note that that is not the same as "I don't know, but it is 100% certain that the cause was natural". Do you see my point?


(03-05-2016 02:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  I agree with your point. But I will add this.
Physical pain is called "physical" for a reason. Only physical body can have physical pain. It is against natural laws.
But when we talk about re-arranging physical elements we know that we don't know many things about re-arranging physical elements. The idea of re-arranging physical elements is NOT something that is against natural laws.

What "natural law" is being broken by a nonphysical body experiencing physical pain? You're perfectly fine with a nonphysical being creating a physical child in a physical woman all without breaking "natural laws". How are these different?

And rearranging physical elements is something we know a lot about. The catch is, there are stark limitations to what can or cannot be done, and a lot of those processes take a lot of energy. So, you're effectively advocating Jesus pulling off some type of controlled nuclear or chemical reaction in front of 5,000 people with no casualties. At some point, you're gonna have to just accept the fact that Jesus did some magic.
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03-05-2016, 02:58 PM
RE: Did the Jesus part ruin it?
(03-05-2016 02:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 02:37 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Are you really... because now you're saying something different from mere posts ago. Here you say yhwh did know but before you said he couldn't know because you knew that and it would conflict with natural laws. Then you added god has natural laws we don't know.. making your claim of knowing this untrustable

So what is it. Because you do an awful lot of claiming that you Know things yet follow it up with other things.l or retactonary claims without ever acknowledging the retraction
I have never said that Yahweh or Jesus Christ knew what physical pain was BEFORE He was born on Earth. Before He obtained physical body He did NOT know what physical pain or physical death were. Only when He became mortal man like we do.
But His God and His Father already knew what physical pain/and death were. He also was a mortal man once.
You said god is all knowing only of things according to natural law... but expressed it uses natural laws we don't know

So what foolish human basis is your source for knowing what God can it can not know about physical existence before it... how do you know that when you admitted to not knowing all the ways a god could go about things.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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