Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
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18-07-2017, 11:11 AM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(18-07-2017 11:09 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 10:15 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Universal healthcare.

So Donald Trump is right when he disagrees with himself?

Hobo

He is always right. He knows better than mere mortals.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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18-07-2017, 11:12 AM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(18-07-2017 11:00 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The eighth person at The Treason in the Tower (you know that's what it's gonna be called) was notorious money launderer Irakly Kaveladze because who doesn't need a money launderer at an innocent meeting about Russian baby adoptions. This is all starting to make sense now. They wanted to launder money in adopted Russian baby diapers.

Oh, come on! You know that the Trumps want to expand their business interests beyond real estate, so why not explore the baby market? They could likely buy babies from Russia at a third of their market value in the USA, and launder a few of their Rubles Dollars in the process. It just makes good business sense, and to quote the Prez: "Anyone would have gone to that meeting."
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18-07-2017, 11:24 AM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(18-07-2017 11:12 AM)Rockblossom Wrote:  Oh, come on! You know that the Trumps want to expand their business interests beyond real estate, so why not explore the baby market? They could likely buy babies from Russia at a third of their market value in the USA, and launder a few of their Rubles Dollars in the process. It just makes good business sense, and to quote the Prez: "Anyone would have gone to that meeting."

Yes, yes! I see it now! It all makes perfect sense!

And all of it was completely legal and above board because no one ever thought you needed to make laws about such things before. The only reason the Trumps had to lie and obstruct justice was because of the Democrats' hysteria. Fake news! Losers! Sad!

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18-07-2017, 07:58 PM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(18-07-2017 10:46 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  One certainly can be libertarian and government input conservative but think as much as a gov should give defense & property protection, they should give Healthcare universally too.

This is why that although I'm still registered as a Libertarian, and I did indeed vote for Johnson as least-worst of the three, I still consider myself divorced from the party -- because I think that health care in a society this wealthy should be a given. That isn't government intrusion, that's government support, and there's a big difference.
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19-07-2017, 06:58 PM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(18-07-2017 07:44 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Okay, then what is Trump right about?

Sorry for the delayed response, but i didn't want to not answer this.

He's right about a great many things.

He's right that America's leaders have outsourced the future for most working class Americans and these trade deals have embraced a form of globalization that has worked against the interest of American citizens (but to the benefit of American corporations).

He's right that most of his political opponents were in the pocket of Wall Street and were going to do fuck all to improve the situation of most Americans who have seen their wages stagnate for 20 years.

He's right that Obamacare not only did not deliver the cost reductions it promised but for middle class Americans who don't qualify subsidies it raised their prices for premiums beyond anything reasonable, to a point where people in their 50s where opting to pay the penalty because it was significantly cheaper than buying the insurance.

He's right that China is a currency manipulator and their not playing by the same rules, and that is costing Americans jobs and wealth.

He's right that neither party works for 95% of Americans. And they know it. This is a pretty good overview of his appeal. Watch the short video embedded there too about how corrupt America is.

But, he's right about a lot of things. He has absolutely no fucking clue what to do about any of it, and I don't think he even really understands most of the real issues, but his general observations were not wrong. Many of them were spot on.

I flat out reject the narrative that the ~63 million people who voted for him are all racist, alt-right ultra nationalists. That is pure bullshit. Many of the people who voted for him in Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania are the same people who helped elect Obama in 2008 and 2012. They didn't suddenly turn into members of the KKK. What they did do is become disgusted. You had 2 very flawed candidates. One of them was a known quantity and who had a long track record of what she really stood for, and one pointed out things neither party wants to address and promised to do something about it. Even if you thought he was probably full of shit, there was a glimmer of hope with him. With her, there was none. I couldn't bring myself to ever vote for that asshat but I get why some people did. I really do.

Oh, one other thing he's not wrong about: he's not wrong that most of the allegations against him are pure bullshit put out simply to undermine his presidency and that there are a whole lot of double standards in play. The Clinton campaign paid a former British spy to produce information about Trump, and some of the alleged allegations he came up with allegedly came from people within the Russian government. There is a lot of doubt about what aspects of Michael Steel's dossier are true, but there is no doubt about him being paid to do what he did. And, no one said "boo" about it. Maybe Don jr. committed a crime with that Russian meetings. There are some questions of law and of fact that need to be sorted out (for example, nothing of value was received so does that constitute a violation of the law?) But, what the Clinton campaign did was really not dramatically different. No one cares about that, though.

I get that people think Trump is an asshole. I think he's an asshole. And, I think he's going to be a fucking horror show for the next 3 1/2 years. But, let's call all this what it is - it's a sandbag job from the press and his own intelligence community. And, if the same thing had happened to Obama, or a President Hillary Clinton (had she won) the same people cheering it on would have been outraged.

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20-07-2017, 07:15 AM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(19-07-2017 06:58 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 07:44 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Okay, then what is Trump right about?

Sorry for the delayed response, but i didn't want to not answer this.

While I agree with only a few points from your assessment, thanks for the detailed response. It's very difficult for someone like me to get into the mindset of Trump supporters.
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20-07-2017, 08:58 AM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
I think the mindset for many of them is "how can it be worse?". In the 90s Bill Clinton talked about retraining people in industries like coal so when they were displaced from their jobs they still had a future. Those investments never happened and those communities have been economically destroyed.

They had 2 candidates to choose from. One gave them a message of "fuck you" and one promised to bring their jobs back. Who would you expect them to vote for? Why would they ever vote for her?

These people aren't lunatic racists nationalists. They are worried about the future and how to provide for their families, just like the rest of us. And they have been the butt of jokes and ignored by both parties for 2 decades.

The mystery isn't why did they vote for Trump. The mystery is how did both parties miss the resentment for so long.

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20-07-2017, 10:01 AM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(19-07-2017 06:58 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 07:44 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Okay, then what is Trump right about?

Sorry for the delayed response, but i didn't want to not answer this.

He's right about a great many things.

He's right that America's leaders have outsourced the future for most working class Americans and these trade deals have embraced a form of globalization that has worked against the interest of American citizens (but to the benefit of American corporations).

He's right that most of his political opponents were in the pocket of Wall Street and were going to do fuck all to improve the situation of most Americans who have seen their wages stagnate for 20 years.

He's right that Obamacare not only did not deliver the cost reductions it promised but for middle class Americans who don't qualify subsidies it raised their prices for premiums beyond anything reasonable, to a point where people in their 50s where opting to pay the penalty because it was significantly cheaper than buying the insurance.

He's right that China is a currency manipulator and their not playing by the same rules, and that is costing Americans jobs and wealth.

He's right that neither party works for 95% of Americans. And they know it. This is a pretty good overview of his appeal. Watch the short video embedded there too about how corrupt America is.

But, he's right about a lot of things. He has absolutely no fucking clue what to do about any of it, and I don't think he even really understands most of the real issues, but his general observations were not wrong. Many of them were spot on.

I flat out reject the narrative that the ~63 million people who voted for him are all racist, alt-right ultra nationalists. That is pure bullshit. Many of the people who voted for him in Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania are the same people who helped elect Obama in 2008 and 2012. They didn't suddenly turn into members of the KKK. What they did do is become disgusted. You had 2 very flawed candidates. One of them was a known quantity and who had a long track record of what she really stood for, and one pointed out things neither party wants to address and promised to do something about it. Even if you thought he was probably full of shit, there was a glimmer of hope with him. With her, there was none. I couldn't bring myself to ever vote for that asshat but I get why some people did. I really do.

Oh, one other thing he's not wrong about: he's not wrong that most of the allegations against him are pure bullshit put out simply to undermine his presidency and that there are a whole lot of double standards in play. The Clinton campaign paid a former British spy to produce information about Trump, and some of the alleged allegations he came up with allegedly came from people within the Russian government. There is a lot of doubt about what aspects of Michael Steel's dossier are true, but there is no doubt about him being paid to do what he did. And, no one said "boo" about it. Maybe Don jr. committed a crime with that Russian meetings. There are some questions of law and of fact that need to be sorted out (for example, nothing of value was received so does that constitute a violation of the law?) But, what the Clinton campaign did was really not dramatically different. No one cares about that, though.

I get that people think Trump is an asshole. I think he's an asshole. And, I think he's going to be a fucking horror show for the next 3 1/2 years. But, let's call all this what it is - it's a sandbag job from the press and his own intelligence community. And, if the same thing had happened to Obama, or a President Hillary Clinton (had she won) the same people cheering it on would have been outraged.

Excellent post. This is what I said about Trump from the beginning. He has been saying for 30 years that our government has issues. He just waited too long to get involved. He should have done something in his 40's while his mind was sharp. Now that he's in his 70's, he has good goals, but no real idea how to achieve them. I believe he's really counting on congress to come up with the plans and he'll just throw his signature on it. But he can achieve things like tax reform, repealing the ACA, better trade deals and building the wall because he ran on those issues and that sets an agenda from the American people. He might not know exactly how to accomplish those things but congress does, and congress knows what the people want because Trump is president.

And he is currently being railroaded by the media and Obama holdovers in the intelligence community. The leaks are a disgrace to the positions these leakers hold. The unmasking incidents are also a disgrace.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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20-07-2017, 10:06 AM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
Congressmen are blatantly admitting they don't know how to solve those thinfs... nor are they all things where there is a "thing" to solve.

Even some gop people are admitting well we did have 8 years to try and find alternatives to aca but have no good plans that come from our thoughts on it.

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20-07-2017, 10:18 AM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(20-07-2017 08:58 AM)BnW Wrote:  I think the mindset for many of them is "how can it be worse?". In the 90s Bill Clinton talked about retraining people in industries like coal so when they were displaced from their jobs they still had a future. Those investments never happened and those communities have been economically destroyed.

They had 2 candidates to choose from. One gave them a message of "fuck you" and one promised to bring their jobs back. Who would you expect them to vote for? Why would they ever vote for her?

These people aren't lunatic racists nationalists. They are worried about the future and how to provide for their families, just like the rest of us. And they have been the butt of jokes and ignored by both parties for 2 decades.

The mystery isn't why did they vote for Trump. The mystery is how did both parties miss the resentment for so long.
Why would that of been a policy actually levied out by the position of president though. Makes sense for forward

What types of politicans state and local did those regions of WV, western Pennsylvania, etc. Have? Did those folks enact measures or try but we shut down by who of what efforts? Or did they have politicans that tried to hold onto the dying realm without alternative solutions for the communities?

If their feeling toward the Clintons is FU, what type of politicans and out reaches did they likely have the last two decades... probably you mean republicans promising to keep snd bring back coal jobs this whole time while failing to do that seemingly impossible task.

What was different in promise and claim that Trump made here that every gop political member hasn't made to them? Their Senators and congressmen, bush, romney, and mccains have told them all the same things.

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