Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
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11-07-2017, 05:07 PM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(11-07-2017 06:38 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(11-07-2017 06:31 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  No. The legal definition of treason requires that it be in a time of war, and that the accused commit acts of war against the nation.

As I read it it doesn't exclusively apply to wartime? It says whoever "levies war" *or* "adheres to the enemies of" the United States?

(11-07-2017 06:48 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(11-07-2017 06:38 AM)morondog Wrote:  As I read it it doesn't exclusively apply to wartime? It says whoever "levies war" *or* "adheres to the enemies of" the United States?

That may be a better reading, but it still requires that there be an enemy, and I doubt such could be said about a country with whom we have $20 billion in trade annually, and hold up in a court of law.

(11-07-2017 07:11 AM)Dom Wrote:  If they classify the cyber war as actual war, it could be.

So, on the way home from work listening to NPR, it was stated that there must either be a declared war, or that in the case of non-state entities, a de facto shooting war. I haven't vetted the accuracy of that statement yet, but it seems to support my first post here.
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11-07-2017, 05:20 PM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(11-07-2017 12:48 PM)Norm Deplume Wrote:  
(11-07-2017 06:31 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  No. The legal definition of treason requires that it be in a time of war, and that the accused commit acts of war against the nation.

John Brown was executed in 1859 for treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia. There was no anti-slavery war at the time.

He was prosecuted and executed by the Commonwealth, not the Federal government. I cannot find the verbiage of the state law under which he was prosecuted, but because it wasn't Federal, I'm not sure the case is pertinent. This would be, hypothetically, a Federal case, because it deals with a Federal election.
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11-07-2017, 05:29 PM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(11-07-2017 03:37 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I challenge anyone to quote the U.S. Code that the president, his children or campaign supposedly violated. What act specifically is illegal?

Quote:§ 30121.
Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
(a) Prohibition: It shall be unlawful for—
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;

[Emphasis added -- Thump]

Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121

Of course, if he hasn't broken any laws, I'd say that the activities of his campaign have certainly violated the trust of Americans in the electoral system, and in that case the appropriate venue is at the polling booth. He's going to have some hard sledding in 2020.
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11-07-2017, 05:34 PM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(11-07-2017 04:01 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  They must fight the GOP. If they can't beat the GOP, Trump will win again.

You mean the same GOP that nominated a man who was happy to allow the foreign intervention into our elections?

Man, if I were a Democrat campaign manager, I'd be licking my chops. Ryan, McConnell -- all those guys are -- as pointed out above, guilty of selling the country out . They'd better hope Mueller doesn't find the goods that we all know are lurking somewhere.
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11-07-2017, 05:43 PM (This post was last modified: 11-07-2017 08:24 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(11-07-2017 04:01 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Right now Americans trust republicans more than democrats to get the job done.

Which job is that?

(11-07-2017 04:01 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  But he's part of the Republican party.

That ain't gonna last. Who do you think is encouraging and organizing and scheduling all this leaking. I'll give you a hint, it sure as shit ain't the well-oiled "I don't belong to any organized political party, I'm a Democrat" DNC or the genius, Finding Dory "Hillary, where's your health plan?" RNC. Think Koch and Adelson and Thiel. Trump's toast. They're outfitting cement shoes for him now.

#sigh
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11-07-2017, 05:49 PM (This post was last modified: 11-07-2017 05:54 PM by outtathereligioncloset.)
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
Is it ethically wrong of me to wish he DID commit treason? Because then we could finally get rid of him?

But honestly sometimes I think Pence scares me more. Trump is such a joke that in some ways it makes him inept. Pence strikes me as being the smarter of the two and although I think he would be less likely to approve a nuclear war than Trump, his religious views + more intelligent than Trump, well, I think he could really do some damage in the arena of separation of church and state. Where I don't think THAT subject is nearly as important to Trump.

How scary is it to think that Trump may be the lessor of two evils?

Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?
"Life is not all lovely thorns and singing vultures, you know." ~ Morticia Addams
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11-07-2017, 05:54 PM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(11-07-2017 04:01 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(11-07-2017 03:50 PM)epronovost Wrote:  I tend to agree with you on this one. Why some much focus and effort on this Russian influence on the 2016 election? Trump is a political dodo. He doesn't have a single strong point (or if he does, I haven't seen it yet). You could attack him on everything else. You could show that his healthcare reform is a catastrophy for the population and reeks of amateurism. You could question him on the Syrian and North Korean crisis and where he is clearly improvising when he isn't simply following hte playbook of his predecessors. You could question him on environmental issues. You could attack him on the fact that the POTUS is bullying people on Twitter in direct contradiction to the First Lady efforts of fighting cyberbullying. You could question his idiotic, half baked budget. You could question his stance. You could push on his blatant nepotism. You could question his incredible impopularity in every single country in the world beside Russia and Israel (and than again, Israel would have prefered Clinton). You could even question his multiple potential cases of conflict of interest. Of all of Trump's weaknesses, this one is the least important. In the end, people don't vote for candidates that have no other traits then ''at least, he's not him''. Democrats need to push their politics and their leader at the front, not try to sink Trump further. The man is already doing a great job at being incredibly crass and despicable.

The answer is message. The democrats don't have one. They are still in shock that Trump won. I told you all Trump would win because I saw the country turn red over the last 8 years. By the end of Obama's terms republicans had control of 2/3 of the government. Republicans control the vast majority of governor's seats and state legislatures. Outside a few liberal majority large states the democrats are losing election after election at the state and local levels.

"Trump sucks" is the stupidest campaign slogan and all of the democrats are adopting it. In a country where democrats are being rejected due to lack of message that resonates with the working class, attacking Trump repeatedly drowns out what little message they might have.

Trump could be the biggest idiot in the world. But he's part of the Republican party. Right now Americans trust republicans more than democrats to get the job done. They can't fight Trump. They must fight the GOP. If they can't beat the GOP, Trump will win again.

Actually, what they're turning red over, is not the last 8 years. Obama left the economy on FAR FAR better footing than your Repubtards did, when he came to office. What they are turning red over, (and the Dems missed) is that the middle of the country never really recovered from the recession the Rupubtards LEFT for Obama. There has been a recovery, but the realities of globalization, the lack of real job (re)-training programs, and the continuation of profits going mostly to the top, has left people very angry. Trump is no Republican. He's shown that time and again. He's passed NOTHING, and without heath reform, he can't do tax reform. Trump may win again if they buy his snake-oil again.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-07-2017, 05:58 PM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2017 01:14 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(11-07-2017 03:37 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I challenge anyone to quote the U.S. Code that the president, his children or campaign supposedly violated. What act specifically is illegal?

There is no "collusion" law. Trump could have personally called Putin and asked for Hillary's deleted emails to be released and any other dirt he had. That's not illegal in any way. I've seen a few laws brought up that could be used on some liberal websites, like wire fraud and identity theft (because of the hacked emails). But seriously, those are such a stretch. You'd have to prove Trump himself AIDED in the theft of the emails, not just asked for it to happen. And good luck finding a jury to convict Trump or anyone close to Trump on trumped up charges in this politically divided culture. You need all 9 jurors to convict. At least 1 will be a Trump supporter.

It's not treason either. Not even close. Russia is not our enemy. In many ways we are allies.

This shit is a waste of time. But I don't mind. I hope the mainstream media continues to scream and cry every day. They're only hurting democrats in the long run.

Yeah right. We're allies with the fool that invaded the Ukraine and Crimea. Facepalm
Russia wants to break up NATO. They have repeatedly meddled in foreign elections. No one in their right mind would call this corrupt nation an "ally".
No Republican leader I see on the media, calls Russia an ally. No one.
These idiots can excuse anything.

This is the law the Trumps repeatedly violated. It's what this is ALL about, and for which, one day some of them will be charged in court.
http://www.justice.gov/criminal-fraud/fo...ctices-act

Why do you think the Treasury and Muller have asked for financial records ?
Yeah, "law and order' is all well and good, as long as it's not "my" disorder they're looking at.

Opposition research is a commodity of REAL value in political campaigns. People get PAID to do it, all day long in political campaigns.
Donald Trump Jr. solicited a campaign "contribution in kind" from a foreign national (as revealed in the emails released today).
That is campaign FRAUD.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-07-2017, 06:37 PM
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(11-07-2017 04:01 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  The answer is message. The democrats don't have one.

Nonsense. Climate change, LGBTQ rights, equality, minimum wages, environmentalism, corporate regulations, etc.
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11-07-2017, 07:10 PM (This post was last modified: 11-07-2017 07:17 PM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Did the Trump family commit Treason?!?!
(11-07-2017 06:37 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(11-07-2017 04:01 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  The answer is message. The democrats don't have one.

Nonsense. Climate change, LGBTQ rights, equality, minimum wages, environmentalism, corporate regulations, etc.

The democrats keep running on that platform yet keep losing at every level of government.

They can't win with regular hard working Americans hence the pledge to make 1 million immigrants into citizens over the next year. They've become the party of handouts which is why middle America is rejecting them.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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