Did the scientists convert to Islam?
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05-06-2016, 09:38 AM
RE: Did the scientists convert to Islam?
(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  
(18-08-2012 04:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is nothing in the Koran or the Hadiths that is scientifically interesting. If you believe otherwise, give us the evidence.
If it is not clearly worded, then don't bother. Elliptical or poetic verses that might mean something don't qualify.

We did not evolve from monkeys, we share a common ancestor. We and monkeys and everything else continue to evolve. There is ample evidence of this.
I just registered to answer this ، wish its welcomed as a logical argument

1st in my personal prespective i can't built spiritual beliefs on physical theories, cause theories always expires, newton is wrong now, and in the future Einstein will be, its a scientific habit, now science began to state that evolution is probably wrong by evidence

2nd Quran has facts that can be understood only by specialists , and it stated if you can prove that these words are wrong, this method is a method of proving theories now,something like Bohr ,Einstein conflict
Show this to any specialist doctor in this specific topic and tell me what do he thinks

AL-MU'MINUN (THE BELIEVERS) 9 to 14


And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay.


Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging.

Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah , the best of creators.

This process been discovered after these words by hundred years, and wasn't discovered by this accuracy until soon

Theres many stuff like that in astronomy, physics and chemistry, and I'm sure if I know more I'll find more

Einstein has showed a model that can represent eternity where time and space doesn't exist, and I already believe in this , that time and space are creations
BTW Quran tells Muslims to think and learn cause the more i think and learn about matter the more I believe, actually in quantum physics I find the most hard philosophical questions to physists are already solved to me


Please dont let thisturn into hate argument

OK, Skippy (thanks for that, Anjele!), please explain, as a science geek, why Newton is wrong. Hobo

Please do share your brilliant solutions to physists (sic) philosophical questions. Drinking Beverage
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05-06-2016, 09:44 AM
RE: Did the scientists convert to Islam?
(05-06-2016 09:19 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  
(05-06-2016 08:26 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Mesmerized is exactly the right word for falling for religio-babble.

Good use of the wrong word. Thumbsup
I said

Quran was written and mesmerized by seven men, and till now these seven writtens exist and are the same ,

U took a word out of contest , good

It's obvious that English isn't your first language so I'll explain the joke. Yes, I know that ruins the humour but this poor sod isn't getting it anyway.

You said "mesmerized". That word means to fascinate a person by disabling their wits. Typically used by stage magicians, used car salesmen and politicians. You effectively described your holy men as a bunch of fakes.

The word that you wanted was "memorized".

We found the mistake to be much more fitting than your intended meaning, thus the amusement.

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05-06-2016, 09:45 AM
RE: Did the scientists convert to Islam?
(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  1st in my personal prespective i can't built spiritual beliefs on physical theories, cause theories always expires, newton is wrong now, and in the future Einstein will be, its a scientific habit,


Newtonian physics wasn't proven wrong, at worst it maybe found to be "incomplete". Science builds on the theories of the past as new knowledge is gained. Einstein's theories may also be "incomplete" but somehow they are still accurate enough to put satellites in orbit, and land probes on other planets (not to mention help the GPS in your car figure out which street you are on)

(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  now science began to state that evolution is probably wrong by evidence

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load Not even gonna go there Facepalm

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05-06-2016, 09:45 AM
RE: Did the scientists convert to Islam?
(05-06-2016 09:44 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(05-06-2016 09:19 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  I said

Quran was written and mesmerized by seven men, and till now these seven writtens exist and are the same ,

U took a word out of contest , good

It's obvious that English isn't your first language so I'll explain the joke. Yes, I know that ruins the humour but this poor sod isn't getting it anyway.

You said "mesmerized". That word means to fascinate a person by disabling their wits. Typically used by stage magicians, used car salesmen and politicians. You effectively described your holy men as a bunch of fakes.

The word that you wanted was "memorized".

We found the mistake to be much more fitting than your intended meaning, thus the amusement.

For this kindness I believe you deserve sainthood.

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05-06-2016, 09:54 AM
RE: Did the scientists convert to Islam?
(05-06-2016 08:22 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  
(05-06-2016 07:43 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The Quran, just like the Bible, was not "written" sui generis. It was assembled. From many sources. It contains nothing that was not already present in the culture of the time it was assembled. It contains nothing unique. For example, the walking around a stone, was already a custom in ancient Arabia, to perform that custom, around what were thought to me meteorites. Many many gods were worshiped in the Kabbalah. Allah originated as the crescent phase of the moon god, Sin. The Quran is one of many many ancient texts that were assembled, generally for political control purposes. The Arabic Empire was vast, and expanding. Religion worked well to unite and control empires. That was a well known fact the time the Quran was assembled.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid169445

Time and space do not exist, in this universe, separately. Space-time is a property of this universe. What may or may not be properties of what may not be part of this universe is unknown, at this point. "Creation/s" implies a creator. We have no evidence for one of those. Timelessness may indeed be found (in some way) to exist. it is is found, ALL the suppositions that go with space time will be jettisoned for some other reality. The gods are no more compatible with that, than they are with spacetime.

Sorry but that first part is totally wrong and missleading and didn't response to my words
Quran was written and mesmerized by seven men, and till now these seven writtens exist and are the same , let the question be:how a man who isn't a scientist know such detailed process and many others while these processes only discovered lately


And as whats outside the universe is unknow
Common sense tells everything is done by someone
If u claim that universe came up by itself ,its not logic , it may be true but u need to prove it first

Unhuh. Very common basic street level mistake you make. Typical, and very uneducated response.
"Common sense" is not operable at that level of Reality. Quantum Mechanics and Relativity do not meet "common sense" rules. "Coming from" (nothing) requires spaceTIME to ALREADY be in place. So your premise is meaningless. See DR. Sean Carroll (Cal Tech) vs Craig. The language you present is not relevant to that situation. Virtual particles do not come into being "by someone". I don't have to prove anything. YOU claimed it has a cause. Prove it.

You also cannot prove what you CLAIM about the Quran. You can't even prove Muhammad even existed.




Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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05-06-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: Did the scientists convert to Islam?
(05-06-2016 09:45 AM)Anjele Wrote:  For this kindness I believe you deserve sainthood.

Sainthood?!? What did I ever do to you? Tongue

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05-06-2016, 09:57 AM
RE: Did the scientists convert to Islam?
(05-06-2016 09:45 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(05-06-2016 09:44 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  It's obvious that English isn't your first language so I'll explain the joke. Yes, I know that ruins the humour but this poor sod isn't getting it anyway.

You said "mesmerized". That word means to fascinate a person by disabling their wits. Typically used by stage magicians, used car salesmen and politicians. You effectively described your holy men as a bunch of fakes.

The word that you wanted was "memorized".

We found the mistake to be much more fitting than your intended meaning, thus the amusement.

For this kindness I believe you deserve sainthood.

Close but he missed "out of contest".

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05-06-2016, 10:16 AM
RE: Did the scientists convert to Islam?
(05-06-2016 09:30 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  I just registered to answer this ، wish its welcomed as a logical argument

Congratulations. You realize that this thread is 5 years old? Most of the people involved in the original discussion are no longer here. Finest necromancy.

Quote:2nd Quran has facts that can be understood only by specialists

We call them apologists. The bastard offspring of cockroaches and intestinal parasites that grew up hiding in the shadow of a corkscrew.

Quote:Theres many stuff like that in astronomy, physics and chemistry, and I'm sure if I know more I'll find more

You know the Christians make exactly the same claim? It's classic after the fact rationalization. Simply take a large book and find a passage that vaguely fits an established scientific fact and then warp the meaning until it suits. And ignore all those other pesky passages where it gets science utterly wrong. It dishonest and simply tells me you don't have much faith in your faith.

Quote:Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah , the best of creators.

Let's have a look at that shall we? First there's an incredibly vague similarity between that and early development of the fetus. Second, it's wrong. The "lump" (is that the technical term?) does not become bones that are subsequently covered by flesh. That does not happen.

See what you've done? By bringing subjecting your scripture to the scientific process you've destroyed it's validity. Disproven like an errant hypothesis.

At this point you're going to start getting really dishonest by trying to tell us that that isn't really what the Qu'ran says, what it really says is something completely different that's more or less the opposite of the straight forward meaning. At which point I'll dismiss your scripture and you completely. The Qu'ran's hardly much use if I need some silly mortal to tell me what it means. Divine revalation shouldn't require an intermediary to get it wrong.

Here's the real test though. If the Qu'ran is so very scientifically accurate then you can tell me what the next great discoveries in science will be. They ought to be right there in the text. You should be able to get a decent Nobel Prize or three out of it. Go ahead, we're all waiting. Popcorn Drinking Beverage


Good point u mentioned about the the bone thing , I would re study it and see what I'd get for myself before anyone, I have no problem if I'm wrong

And by predicting ,I think you are the one who predicted my actions not the Quran now lol

Check these things and tell me what do u think:
:سورة النازعات
وَالْأَرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ دَحَاهَا (30
:سورة الحديد
لَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا رُسُلَنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ وَأَنْزَلْنَا مَعَهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْمِيزَانَ لِيَقُومَ النَّاسُ بِالْقِسْطِ ۖ وَأَنْزَلْنَا الْحَدِيدَ فِيهِ بَأْسٌ شَدِيدٌ وَمَنَافِعُ لِلنَّاسِ وَلِيَعْلَمَ اللَّهُ مَنْ يَنْصُرُهُ وَرُسُلَهُ بِالْغَيْبِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ ﴿٢٥﴾


I don't know how many books u read ,but its known that a book loses some wn translate so I'd prefer if u translate it urself to get the most accurate meaning ,
U say it shouldn't be hard to know what Quran says,I say who seeks truth would do it to check, I have read many in English just for human science
We seek the truth not the other way around ,
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05-06-2016, 10:35 AM
RE: Did the scientists convert to Islam?
(05-06-2016 08:22 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  And as whats outside the universe is unknow[n]

"Outside the universe" is not meaningful if "universe" is defined as everything that exists. If you are limiting it to what we can currently observe then I'd agree that anything "outside" is unknown. Until we can determine something about it the only rational response is to leave it as an unknown.

Quote:Common sense tells everything is done by someone

Just like Newtonian physics doesn't apply as you approach the speed of light, common sense doesn't apply when you move towards the small or large ends of what exists. Our brains evolved to handle everyday situations, not infinities. What seems intuitive on a human scale does not matter when you are talking about how things got to be the way they are.

Quote:If u claim that universe came up by itself ,its not logic , it may be true but u need to prove it first

Good thing that isn't what is claimed. That is a strawman argument at best. What is claimed is that we do not know but if you really want to claim a god did it, please explain why simple matter/energy could not have always existed but a highly complex thing like a god could.

(05-06-2016 09:14 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  But the word god conflict with the idea of he is creation himself
By god I mean the first of this chain

You still have to explain how that first link came about, especially when it is so complex.

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05-06-2016, 11:01 AM
RE: Did the scientists convert to Islam?
(05-06-2016 10:35 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(05-06-2016 08:22 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  And as whats outside the universe is unknow[n]

"Outside the universe" is not meaningful if "universe" is defined as everything that exists. If you are limiting it to what we can currently observe then I'd agree that anything "outside" is unknown. Until we can determine something about it the only rational response is to leave it as an unknown.

Quote:Common sense tells everything is done by someone

Just like Newtonian physics doesn't apply as you approach the speed of light, common sense doesn't apply when you move towards the small or large ends of what exists. Our brains evolved to handle everyday situations, not infinities. What seems intuitive on a human scale does not matter when you are talking about how things got to be the way they are.

Quote:If u claim that universe came up by itself ,its not logic , it may be true but u need to prove it first

Good thing that isn't what is claimed. That is a strawman argument at best. What is claimed is that we do not know but if you really want to claim a god did it, please explain why simple matter/energy could not have always existed but a highly complex thing like a god could.

(05-06-2016 09:14 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  But the word god conflict with the idea of he is creation himself
By god I mean the first of this chain

You still have to explain how that first link came about, especially when it is so complex.

You can't neglect the common sense any scale cause its the principal if analytic science

The unknown still unknown to us , as everything is unknown not only outside the side universe . science can't explain daily routine process

And you want an scientific explanation of god
Its too much for science to do that
And if science failed to prove it , it doesn't end the problems, science were never right it always evolving and expires
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