Did the scientists convert to Islam?
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12-06-2016, 11:49 PM
RE: Did the scientists convert to Islam?
(05-06-2016 02:37 PM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  and how a man who has never been known as a scientist all his life , he used to be trader, and by the age of 40 just knew all these stuff all by him self

I don't think he did.

I do not think that Mohammed actually wrote down the Qur'an in its current form, and I definitely do not think that it originated with a god. I think that it was a collaborative effort by shaikhs and mullahs some years after Mohammed's death, and that it's actually an anthology that incidentally contains snippets of many secular writings that were available to the authors (for example, the work of numerous Greek scientists).
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14-06-2016, 12:14 AM
RE: Did the scientists convert to Islam?
(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  
(18-08-2012 04:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is nothing in the Koran or the Hadiths that is scientifically interesting. If you believe otherwise, give us the evidence.
If it is not clearly worded, then don't bother. Elliptical or poetic verses that might mean something don't qualify.

We did not evolve from monkeys, we share a common ancestor. We and monkeys and everything else continue to evolve. There is ample evidence of this.
I just registered to answer this ، wish its welcomed as a logical argument

1st in my personal prespective i can't built spiritual beliefs on physical theories, cause theories always expires, newton is wrong now, and in the future Einstein will be, its a scientific habit, now science began to state that evolution is probably wrong by evidence

2nd Quran has facts that can be understood only by specialists , and it stated if you can prove that these words are wrong, this method is a method of proving theories now,something like Bohr ,Einstein conflict
Show this to any specialist doctor in this specific topic and tell me what do he thinks

AL-MU'MINUN (THE BELIEVERS) 9 to 14


And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay.


Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging.

Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah , the best of creators.

This process been discovered after these words by hundred years, and wasn't discovered by this accuracy until soon

Theres many stuff like that in astronomy, physics and chemistry, and I'm sure if I know more I'll find more

Einstein has showed a model that can represent eternity where time and space doesn't exist, and I already believe in this , that time and space are creations
BTW Quran tells Muslims to think and learn cause the more i think and learn about matter the more I believe, actually in quantum physics I find the most hard philosophical questions to physists are already solved to me


Please dont let thisturn into hate argument

There is so much wrong with this on so many levels i don't even know where to start. your scientific illiteracy is ...well frankly astounding. It's far to late for me to go in depth tonight but rest assured I will.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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14-06-2016, 12:26 AM
RE: Did the scientists convert to Islam?
How did a thread from 2011 get rehashed???

WARNING. Banjo is currently on an experimental drug. The drug causes neurological problems. To put it in perspective, I am on $25,000.00 of drugs per week. Plus others. If I seem crazy, please ignore me. I am. I can be okay then simply lose my mind. Many thanks. Banjo.
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14-06-2016, 07:40 PM (This post was last modified: 14-06-2016 10:25 PM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Did the scientists convert to Islam?
(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  I just registered to answer this ، wish its welcomed as a logical argument
I'll give you argument, but I most certainly not grant you "logical".

(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  1st in my personal prespective i can't built spiritual beliefs on physical theories, cause theories always expires
Theories do not "expire" to begin with nor do they "always" do so, they get refined as time goes on. As our methodology and our tools/instruments get better so to do our theories. The reason you don't apply critical thinking and the scientific methodology to spiritual beliefs probably has more to do with "spiritual beliefs" having a track record of 0% when it comes to the whole "is their any proof of this shit" if we are being honest. People don't apply consistent methodology to their own beliefs because they don't like the answers they get when they do.

(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  newton is wrong now
Some of Newtons work is not correct but a great deal of it is very much correct and demonstrably so. Saying that "newton is wrong" because some of his hypotheses now have better more refined explanations makes no more sense than saying that Lionel Messi is not a football player because he doesn't score every time he kicks the football. It's a ludicrous over simplification of an entire body of work and not a valid statement.

(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  and in the future Einstein will be
It's not likely given that we use his, and many other peoples, work to produce technologies, medical procedures, and much more that actually work. If they are wrong then they can work, but they do work so they by necessity have to be correct. We will further refine and expand on their work the noting that the bulk of his work could be discarded is untrue and the claim that it absolutely WILL is just an attempt by you to dictate what the future holds and that's just laughably ignorant sir.

(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  its a scientific habit
It's not, it's really really not. Trigonometry still works don't it?

(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  now science began to state that evolution is probably wrong by evidence
This is just insanely incorrect. If evolution was wrong then almost the entirety of our medical technology would not work. At all. However it does, and it does that because we can use the current fields of science that contribute to the broad spectrum that make up the study of evolution to make predictions and we use the predictions to make new medicines and technology. These medicines work, we know why they work, and that would be 100% IMPOSSIBLE if the theory was wrong, because it would be giving us predictions that were wrong that would produce medicines that did not work. But it does. Because the theory is correct.

Now I don't know if the claim it's being disproven is something you pulled outta your own ass or if your repeating something someone else pulled out of their ass and told you about but either you or that person is lying. So to find out which one you are going to have to provide proof of that claim you just made, because not only do we have a better understanding of Evolution than we do gravity, but it's about as close to a fact as something in science can be considered a fact.

I want to see the proof.

(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  2nd Quran has facts that can be understood only by specialists
Is a claim made by every person trying to sell me snake oil. I don't require a person to try and twist and mutilate the words to say something that person wants them to say.

(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  and it stated if you can prove that these words are wrong, this method is a method of proving theories now,something like Bohr ,Einstein conflict
I'll admit I'm guessing at what you mean here.
1.) The only method for testing theories that produces accurate, verifiable, testable, and demonstrable evidence and support is the scientific method. Every other "method", including yours, fails in almost every conceivable way.
2.) Bohr and Einstein conflict with your methodology because your methodology is not a methodology in any way shape or form. You have no peer review, no methodological standards, you have no actual method. Looking at a poorly written book and saying "yes that probably means the thing I set out to show that it meant" is not a methodology, it's plain idiocy.
3.) If science disagrees with your beliefs than your beliefs are wrong because science can be demonstrated and proven and your beliefs can only be asserted as you have no proof.


(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay.
False and false, man was not created he is a product of billions of years of Evolution and at no point in the development of the human fetus is clay involved. Humans are some 60% water and about 0% fuckin' clay.


(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging.
Sperm causing pregnancy is a thing that has been known for several THOUSAND years before the invention of the Islamic myth and the fact that you think "put sperm in woman get baby" is an idea that is unique to Islam and proves it's divinity is sad if not surprising.

(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation.
Couple of things.
1.) Autopsies have been preformed since around 300 BCE by the Greeks and other peoples and the above contains no information that could not be gained from such procedures.
2.) Not only that but the above is also wrong, very wrong. That is not how a human develops in the womb, bone and flesh happen at the same time not one after the other. So you are just flat wrong.

(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  So blessed is Allah , the best of creators.
The best of creators that doesn't even understand human fetal development. the best of creators who made humans with an organ that explodes without warning or reason and kills you, eyes that can't see int he dark despite spending about 50% of our lives at night, and with teeth that cause us excruciating pain and then kill us.
That's a stupid creator.

(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  This process been discovered after these words by hundred years, and wasn't discovered by this accuracy until soon
Except that your process is wrong and oh ya the correct one was all published in On the Generation of Animals.... by Aristotle..... over 2000 years ago! Which was translated into Arabic from a Syriac version around the time the Quran was written, meaning that it had to have been known BEFORE it was put in your book.
Not only is this NOT an example of anything unique to the Quran it's actually an example of that books author taking knowledge that was already over 1000 years old and widely known!

(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  Theres many stuff like that in astronomy, physics and chemistry, and I'm sure if I know more I'll find more
Yes Arabic and Islamic scholars had a great deal of knowledge given to them by men that came before them, especially the Greeks and the Romans, and NOT any from a bloody god so far as you have been able to show so far.

(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  Einstein has showed a model that can represent eternity where time and space doesn't exist, and I already believe in this
Why would you do that when you JUST said Einstein is wrong. Oh wait, let me guess: he's only wrong about the things you don't agree with but all the stuff you do agree with he is right about. Motherfucking convenient that.

I've also never seen this model, at least not how you describe it, so I'd like you to provide a link to it.


(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  BTW Quran tells Muslims to think and learn cause the more i think and learn about matter the more I believe
Well son you got some learning to do then because you are pretty ignorant on almost everything you have talked about so far. that's not an insult or even a bad thing but you need to get out of the need to view science through the lens of Islam and actually study science free from that bias. Until you do that you just engaged in confirmation bias and not actually learning anything.

There is nothing special or unique in the Quran from a scientific stand point and hope that has become quite clear with my post. Though I doubt it.

(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  actually in quantum physics I find the most hard philosophical questions to physists are already solved to me
That's a rather impressive feat considering there are no philosophical questions in either Quantum Mechanics or their study a thing you would know if you had any actual education in QM. Quantum Mechanics is not a philosophy it's a science, and physicists aren't struggling with anything philosophical.

And while I'm on it: "god dun it" is not an answer unless you can demonstrate it. Can you? Nope. you don't even understand how a theory is formed let alone how to spot science in a dusty old book.


(05-06-2016 06:09 AM)dimmu.borgir Wrote:  Please dont let thisturn into hate argument
I don't hate you but your ignorance and poor education aren't exactly endearing either.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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