Discipline/lack of and atheism
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11-06-2017, 05:35 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 05:31 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 05:08 AM)Thinker Wrote:  I need someone to break stereotypes that atheists are far from disciplined due to their 'lack of faith but also fear in God' as an agent in governing individual discipline. Theists have often argued .... bla bla bla.

Why is it you "need" this ?

It's because I want to defend and uphold human dignity amongst atheists and stop theistic stigmatisations aimed at atheists so far.
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11-06-2017, 05:38 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 05:35 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  How atheists do with self-discipline? Each differently than other as what atheist have in common is lack of belief.

Self-discipline is individualistic and varies between different individuals whether as theists or atheists. So the reason I ask in OP is to know the diversity of different examples. As I said recurrently, regardless of atheism which is defined simply as rejection of god, I only ask for examples from you atheists simply as humans.
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11-06-2017, 05:41 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 05:31 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 05:08 AM)Thinker Wrote:  I need someone to break stereotypes that atheists are far from disciplined due to their 'lack of faith but also fear in God' as an agent in governing individual discipline. Theists have often argued .... bla bla bla.

Why is it you "need" this ?
Discipline and values are learned behaviors. Their correlation with beliefs is not established. If you value a disciplined orderly life, (and some people may not) then pursue it.
Values and behaviors do not come from the gods or their absence.
Don't get stuck on one definition of "need". I need oxygen. I need a shot of really good scotch. I need that dog to stop barking.
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11-06-2017, 05:44 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 05:35 AM)Thinker Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 05:31 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Why is it you "need" this ?

It's because I want to defend and uphold human dignity amongst atheists and stop theistic stigmatisations aimed at atheists so far.

So you want to establish empirically that atheists have neat houses ?

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11-06-2017, 05:44 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 05:38 AM)Thinker Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 05:35 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  How atheists do with self-discipline? Each differently than other as what atheist have in common is lack of belief.

Self-discipline is individualistic and varies between different individuals whether as theists or atheists. So the reason I ask in OP is to know the diversity of different examples. As I said recurrently, regardless of atheism which is defined simply as rejection of god, I only ask for examples from you atheists simply as humans.

If you know that self-discipline varies among people then why you ask: I would like to hear about atheists and how they do with self-discipline, self-regulation and responsibility as well as atheist parents who regulate discipline on their kids.? There is no common standard among atheist in regard to discipline.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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11-06-2017, 05:47 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 05:44 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 05:38 AM)Thinker Wrote:  Self-discipline is individualistic and varies between different individuals whether as theists or atheists. So the reason I ask in OP is to know the diversity of different examples. As I said recurrently, regardless of atheism which is defined simply as rejection of god, I only ask for examples from you atheists simply as humans.

If you know that self-discipline varies among people then why you ask: I would like to hear about atheists and how they do with self-discipline, self-regulation and responsibility as well as atheist parents who regulate discipline on their kids.? There is no common standard among atheist in regard to discipline.

Exactly.
The question implies a non-existent assumption to be true, (and actually supports it).
Answering the question supports the false idea.
The assumptions are not established.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-06-2017, 05:51 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 05:44 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 05:38 AM)Thinker Wrote:  Self-discipline is individualistic and varies between different individuals whether as theists or atheists. So the reason I ask in OP is to know the diversity of different examples. As I said recurrently, regardless of atheism which is defined simply as rejection of god, I only ask for examples from you atheists simply as humans.

If you know that self-discipline varies among people then why you ask: I would like to hear about atheists and how they do with self-discipline, self-regulation and responsibility as well as atheist parents who regulate discipline on their kids.? There is no common standard among atheist in regard to discipline.

Since there's diversity and individualistic variation of self-discipline, the significance of my OP's question is to glean as many different examples. If everyone follows exactly the same kind of discipline that I already know, I wouldn't be asking here.
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11-06-2017, 05:59 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 05:51 AM)Thinker Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 05:44 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  If you know that self-discipline varies among people then why you ask: I would like to hear about atheists and how they do with self-discipline, self-regulation and responsibility as well as atheist parents who regulate discipline on their kids.? There is no common standard among atheist in regard to discipline.

Since there's diversity and individualistic variation of self-discipline, the significance of my OP's question is to glean as many different examples. If everyone follows exactly the same kind of discipline that I already know, I wouldn't be asking here.

Look here.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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11-06-2017, 06:01 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 05:08 AM)Thinker Wrote:  I need someone to break stereotypes that atheists are far from disciplined due to their 'lack of faith but also fear in God' as an agent in governing individual discipline. Theists have often argued that atheists are corrupt, drug too much, do not keep their house tidy, do not eat proper food, party too much, have sex with multiple partners/commit to adultery whilst married with kids and slacken off excessively.

I would like to hear about atheists and how they do with self-discipline, self-regulation and responsibility as well as atheist parents who regulate discipline on their kids.

Regardless of the definition of atheism, I'd like to hear from you atheists as humans examples of discipline you do develop and regulate in yourselves (and if parents, on your children).

I am an atheist of moderate to at times rigorous discipline but I won't tell - I'd like to hear a substantial amount of examples from you before I may tell mine. I'm just sick of being ostracised, ridiculed and laughed at by many atheists for being 'too weird, religious and stuff' when I exhibit rigorous self-discipline and regulation and instead being told to 'loosen up' too frequently.

I hate loaded words especially when various labels argue over who does what and why. Our species behaviors, both good and bad are not inventions or products owned or patented by one group, but a product of our species evolution.

"Discipline" what does that mean? To some it is a licence to be abusive and call it that. To others it means sweating 12 hours 6 or 7 days a week to make someone else rich.

Nope, one size does not fit all. I think all there is to life is just be yourself, don't physically harm others, don't steal from others. Outside that it is nobody's business but mine how I live my life.

When I hear loaded words like "discipline" what I hear is "if you just do it my way".

Common law is what western societies agree on and vote for, in our own private lives however, we cant slap one size fits all on every family.

This seems to be another attempt to re invent the wheel and create our own moral list. Our species morality isn't a patent owned by one label, not even the word atheist has magic powers. Everyone is an individual.

What do I do myself? I live my life as I see fit. I don't see class or status or titles as perfect labels. Life isn't a free for all no, but it isn't a script either.

But it is absolutely idiotic for anyone of any religion worldwide to claim they are perfect labels. There is not one nation on the face of the planet that does not have prisons or hospitals.

I do not think it is even a good idea for atheists to try to come up with some code like we are a club in order to compete with religions. We are just as diverse in our classes, education levels, political views and economic views too. I think there is already our species evolutionary empathy that has guided us to know that cooperation can lead to more stability and less conflict and the dark side of our species leads to cruelty and harm.

Hitchens for example was a well off famous author, but killed himself over decades of smoking and drinking. Don't think he ever was convicted of any violent crime. His house looked clean. James Randi from what he has said has gone his entire life not drinking or smoking. Again, neither regardless had any violent criminal record.

This is what I hate about using words like "discipline", regardless of theist or atheist, if a poor person has health problems it gets treated like a crime but if a rich person has the same problem we pity them rather than vilify them.

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11-06-2017, 06:32 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 05:08 AM)Thinker Wrote:  I need someone to break stereotypes that atheists are far from disciplined due to their 'lack of faith but also fear in God' as an agent in governing individual discipline.

So they are saying that people have no self-discipline and must be kept in line by a more powerful parent figure. I think that says far more about theists making the claim than it does about atheists.

Quote:Theists have often argued that atheists are corrupt, drug too much, do not keep their house tidy, do not eat proper food, party too much, have sex with multiple partners/commit to adultery whilst married with kids and slacken off excessively.

Do not keep their house tidy? Laugh out load
Do not eat "proper" food? Laugh out load

I know atheists and theists who are guilty of all those things. I also know both atheists and theists that are guilty of none of those things. I could point to the societal health evaluations of theistic vs more secular countries as a starting point for showing how ridiculous these claims are but that misses the main points.

In the first place, anybody claiming this nonsense has the burden of proving it. Anecdotal evidence can be easily countered by anecdotal evidence that contradicts it or shows that it applies to theists as well.

The main issue though is that the reply should be "so what?". What they are saying is that people need to be controlled and that is a completely separate argument from whether or not a god actually exists. If they are arguing only for the utility of believing to enforce behavior then they are heading down a very slippery slope of utility, not evidence. Go ahead and agree, for the sake of argument anyway, that people need some kind of guiding force in their lives and then point out that they are not one step closer to demonstrating the existence of their particular god.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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