Discipline/lack of and atheism
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11-06-2017, 06:43 AM (This post was last modified: 11-06-2017 06:52 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 05:26 AM)Thinker Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 05:20 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  This doesn't make sense to me.

How can an atheist have fear in God if there is no God to fear?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something. Can you clarify?

As I said clearly in OP, it is a stereotype that theists commonly subscribe to. I did not personally state so - just quoting theirs. I'm saying lack of faith AND fear in god.

Edited: Wait, the criticism is that atheists don't fear God? That is mental. Of course they don't, if they don't even think it's real. It would only be if they recently left religion and have lingering emotional fears.

Lack of faith? If faith is supposed to be believing whatever fairy tale you happened to be told first as a child in spite of all the evidence to the contrary becoming apparent, then lacking faith is a good thing. Sticking to the first thing you hear is just being stubborn and is no path to truth. Clearly not, because it means they are all true, yet they can't all be true by the nature of their claims.

All anyone knows about a particular atheist is that they lack belief in gods. That's it. Anything else is a projection. Sure, someone may have met X amount of atheists in their life and they mostly happened to be drug using layabouts. That is factual, whereas extrapolating that to the majority of all atheists is not.

Lack of discipline? I don't know where all this is coming from. It sounds to me like you've been talking to theists who have barely ever met an atheist and are just spouting the stereotypes their preachers have filled their heads with.

I don't know what I can tell you about me. I've always been an atheist, yet I've never used drugs, never been in trouble with the law, and achieved a solid education up to and including a degree in mathematics. I worked as a teacher and then a pension administrator until I became too ill. I try my best to be a nice person, and to make the world a better place in whatever ways I can. I don't hurt people or animals, and I'm a vegan for this reason. I respect freedom of speech and religion, as long as the law is being followed and no one is being hurt or harassed. Feel free to ask me more.

I think the people you're referring to just think in blanket terms of god=good, atheist=bad, because they are atheists. Unless they alter that second part and use a criteria apart from whether or not the person is in their cult, they will never learn anything. They should also go meet some real atheists. They can't imagine someone being "good" without being scared shitless about some invisible parent figure watching their every move. That's just sad, and it's mostly untrue, even for theists that end up becoming atheists. They generally realise they don't need the threat after all to become good people.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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11-06-2017, 06:48 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 06:43 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I don't know what I can tell you about me. I've always been an atheist, yet I've never used drugs, never been in trouble with the law, and achieved a solid education up to and including a degree in mathematics. I worked as a teacher and then a pension administrator until I became too ill. I try my best to be a nice person, and to make the world a better place in whatever ways I can. I don't hurt people or animals, and I'm a vegan for this reason. I respect freedom of speech and religion, as long as the law is being followed and no one is being hurt or harassed.

Yabut, is your house tidy?
Consider

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11-06-2017, 08:41 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 06:48 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 06:43 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I don't know what I can tell you about me. I've always been an atheist, yet I've never used drugs, never been in trouble with the law, and achieved a solid education up to and including a degree in mathematics. I worked as a teacher and then a pension administrator until I became too ill. I try my best to be a nice person, and to make the world a better place in whatever ways I can. I don't hurt people or animals, and I'm a vegan for this reason. I respect freedom of speech and religion, as long as the law is being followed and no one is being hurt or harassed.

Yabut, is your house tidy?
Consider

My house would be tidy, if the theists around here would clean up after themselves.
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11-06-2017, 08:42 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 05:08 AM)Thinker Wrote:  I need someone to break stereotypes that atheists are far from disciplined due to their 'lack of faith but also fear in God' as an agent in governing individual discipline. Theists have often argued that atheists are corrupt, drug too much, do not keep their house tidy, do not eat proper food, party too much, have sex with multiple partners/commit to adultery whilst married with kids and slacken off excessively.
...

✓ drug too much
✓ do not keep their house tidy
✓ do not eat proper food
✓ party too much
✓ have sex with multiple partners
✓ slacken off excessively

And what's wrong with that, I'd like to know?

Dodgy

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11-06-2017, 08:58 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
This is honestly the first time I've heard most of these claims. Sure, I've heard the the claim we fear God, which is of course beyond ludicrous. Do Jews, Christians, and Muslims fear Ahuramazda or Brahma?

You don't need to prove anything. They're comfortable in their false claims and erroneous beliefs regarding atheists. No matter what you or anyone says, they're convinced we're "lost" and in dire need of their deities du jour.

What would suffice? Empirical evidence? I don't owe any theist proof. I don't owe them photos of my house, photos of my immaculate bookshelves, veterinarian documents about my pets' health, my Red Cross volunteer files, my disaster shelter maps for my county, nothing.

If they want to believe that tripe, they're going to do so. Nothing will placate them, and I'm not going to waste my time.
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11-06-2017, 09:10 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
When you are down to using the tidiness of someone's home to prove a person is lesser (morally), you are quickly running out of scare tactics.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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11-06-2017, 09:23 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 05:38 AM)Thinker Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 05:35 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  How atheists do with self-discipline? Each differently than other as what atheist have in common is lack of belief.

Self-discipline is individualistic and varies between different individuals whether as theists or atheists. So the reason I ask in OP is to know the diversity of different examples. As I said recurrently, regardless of atheism which is defined simply as rejection of god, I only ask for examples from you atheists simply as humans.

"You atheists," huh?

Your first sentence in this post undermines your stated reason for this odd thread--to "defend" atheists in general. If your assumption is that atheists and theists already vary individually and not as members of those classifications in terms of self discipline, there's no point in this thread...unless...unless...give me a second, here...unless you're a theist trolling for examples to prove that atheists are a bunch of lazy, unprincipled slackers.

Or maybe you're too intellectually feeble to look for non-anecdotal data on which to base your arguments.

Either way, I'm not playing.
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11-06-2017, 09:31 AM
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 09:23 AM)julep Wrote:  ... unless you're a theist trolling for examples to prove that atheists are a bunch of lazy, unprincipled slackers.

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11-06-2017, 09:31 AM (This post was last modified: 11-06-2017 09:57 AM by jennybee.)
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
I practice yoga and meditate everyday. I eat fairly healthy and I'm vegan. All things considered, I'd say I'm a pretty disciplined person when it comes to health and wellness, well, unless you count the occasional chocolate cupcake Tongue

I also support and help out with many local charities and humanitarian organizations. I also try and help others when I see them in distress. I care for the environment. I don't do drugs of any kind and only have maybe one or two drinks a week in a social environment.

I've only had sex with 4 guys in my life and don't do the one night stand thing. I only have sex in monogamous rships and with someone I'm in love with and trust. That has nothing to do with past religious bullshit either--I'm just a romantic and I like sex to involve romance, passion, trust, and love. When I have sex with someone, I want them to love all of me-mind, body, and soul (for lack of a better word) and vice versa. But the difference between me and religion is, I don't judge others for what they do in their own sex lives. I live the life I want and I want others to do the same.

So I would say by "religious standards" I'm a pretty moral person. And in the end, I get to say I did it all just because and not because a magical sky daddy was going to torture me if I didn't. Doing things out of fear does not a moral person make.
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11-06-2017, 10:15 AM (This post was last modified: 11-06-2017 11:45 AM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Discipline/lack of and atheism
(11-06-2017 08:42 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 05:08 AM)Thinker Wrote:  I need someone to break stereotypes that atheists are far from disciplined due to their 'lack of faith but also fear in God' as an agent in governing individual discipline. Theists have often argued that atheists are corrupt, drug too much, do not keep their house tidy, do not eat proper food, party too much, have sex with multiple partners/commit to adultery whilst married with kids and slacken off excessively.
...

✓ drug too much
✓ do not keep their house tidy
✓ do not eat proper food
✓ party too much
✓ have sex with multiple partners
✓ slacken off excessively

And what's wrong with that, I'd like to know?

Dodgy

Thaaaaaaaaank you!

I was scrolling through the comments to see if someone else had posted this, or if I had to.

The initial question not only makes the errors Robvalue and others pointed out, but it makes several presumptions about why any of those things are bad.

Sure, if you add adjectives/adverbs like "excessively" to some of them, they become bad... but that's true for anything. Eating, for example. Eating is good, eating "excessively" is bad; it's not the eating that's bad but the excess.

This kind of anti-atheist propaganda really does piss me off, especially given that whenever there is any statistical difference between atheists and theists on a negative-outcome behavior, it's usually skewed in favor of the atheists, not the theists (e.g. the amount of religiousity among prisoners, compared to the overall population, and the almost total dearth of atheists, despite a much higher representation among the population, or the study that shows kids raised by atheists tend to be kinder and more generous than those of religious parents). This is just a question of bigotry, on top of the basic premise--unestablished--that having discipline according to one particular cultural definition, or keeping a tidy house, or being monogamous, etc., are necessarily "good" outcomes.

When I hear discipline used in the sense meant by the OP, I think of Colonel Frank Fitts, from American Beauty. Once the word held great importance for me... as an adult, with much more life experience, I now see the highly regimented lifestyle as tragic. Life is meant to be lived.




"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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