Disconcerting conversation today at church.
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22-12-2014, 03:24 PM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2014 03:37 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Disconcerting conversation today at church.
Catholics have long had a dim view of cults, and a long list of who falls into that, pretty much everyone who doesn't belong to the...wait for it..."one true church."

http://www.catholictradition.org/Tradition/cults.htm

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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22-12-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: Disconcerting conversation today at church.
(22-12-2014 01:58 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(22-12-2014 01:50 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  KC,
You are so close to the truth that you only miss it because you keep your eyes shut. Even you, as a congregation of 1 may be guilty of this error. How do you know that your interpretation of the scripture is true?
Doc

I've never claimed that nor do I think that.

I do, however, to my knowledge, have my theology reconciled. It is fallible, though... and open to error. I'm open to altering my beliefs if new truths are presented to me. I'm not omniscient and I'll never pretend to be.

But, at this time, I do believe that my understandings of scripture are the best amalgamation of scripture, science, and history; while not harming the inspiration of the Bible and the deity of Christ and the salvation of the beloved.

KC,
Think about it. You have already determined somehow that there are three great truths, viz., The Bible is inspired, Christ is divine and the beloved are saved. How did you determine those truths if not by indoctrination as a child and from reading the Bible as an adult? How do you know you are not wrong on those truths? If there is no possibility that you could be mistaken, then you are infallible. If there is a chance you could be mistaken, what it would take to convince you that you are? The reams of pages of information just on this site have obviously failed to do so. So what are you waiting for?

Doc
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22-12-2014, 03:41 PM
RE: Disconcerting conversation today at church.
(22-12-2014 03:28 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  KC,
Think about it. You have already determined somehow that there are three great truths, viz., The Bible is inspired, Christ is divine and the beloved are saved. How did you determine those truths if not by indoctrination as a child and from reading the Bible as an adult? How do you know you are not wrong on those truths? If there is no possibility that you could be mistaken, then you are infallible. If there is a chance you could be mistaken, what it would take to convince you that you are? The reams of pages of information just on this site have obviously failed to do so. So what are you waiting for?

Doc

My own personal evidence is something that I can't deny. So yeah... just don't see it happening.

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22-12-2014, 03:43 PM
RE: Disconcerting conversation today at church.
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Big GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig Grin

JK KC ...well maybe just a little

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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22-12-2014, 03:44 PM
RE: Disconcerting conversation today at church.
(21-12-2014 10:56 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  A fellow member told us that one of their family members was deconverting from the Baptist denomination and converting to Catholicism. Apparently, this person married into a Catholic family, and the spouse wants to christen their child into the church.

The member was absolutely appalled, aghast, and completely disappointed. It was like this member found out the family member had committed some horrific crime. The reaction was very melodramatic I wasn't sure at first if the member was serious.

The member then said that they would be receiving an invitation to the christening; however, they would be writing their family members a letter detailing how they would not be attending because it did not coincide with what they believed.

I really couldn't believe what I was hearing.

There was some more discussion, and then I couldn't take it. I finally spoke up.

The convo went something like this:

KC - There are 33,000 different denominations of Christianity. Catholics are one of those. They believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and that Christ is the only way into heaven. So do we. Sure, we have differing theologies in a lot of other places, but the core beliefs that identify them as Christians are the same. That being said, are the potential problems that may come from this really worth it if you do what you're planning on doing?

Member - They just have many pagan beliefs. I don't want to support it or seem like I'm okay with it.

KC - I get that, but you're not supporting the belief. You're supporting your Christian brothers and sisters in an event that's important to their lives. You're not supporting Catholicism; you're supporting [the family that was christening]. I mean, to be honest, that letter you're planning on writing is pretty offensive.

Member - I'm not worried about offending people. I'm worried about standing up for what's true and not supporting incorrect beliefs.

KC - Think about it, though. How would feel if you got that letter? How would you feel if someone close to you from another denomination wrote a letter like that to you? Wouldn't you be offended?

Member - No I wouldn't.

KC - Yeah, you're a liar. Ok... well then.

(some other people put in their two cents, pretty much backing me but not blatantly saying anything as clear as I do)

KC - Look... again... there are 33,000 different denominations. No one has the right theology, but as long as the core beliefs are there, I really can't see the benefit of separating and isolating yourself while potentially seriously offending [the christening family] who just wanted to invite you to an important event in their lives.

But, I guess everyone's line is different. I suppose you're right because that's you and your convictions. This was just my opinion, and I hope you do what's best for you.

Member - Yeah, I'm definitely going to have to think about it.

Can't wait to see how this pans out over the next few weeks.

Am I ever going to learn to keep my big mouth shut?

There has to be one truth. If there isn't, there is no truth.

Truth seeker.
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22-12-2014, 03:48 PM
RE: Disconcerting conversation today at church.
(21-12-2014 10:56 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  A fellow member told us that one of their family members was deconverting from the Baptist denomination and converting to Catholicism. Apparently, this person married into a Catholic family, and the spouse wants to christen their child into the church.

Pretty sure that conversion is not a requirement. Not only was this atheist married in a Catholic Church by a Catholic Priest even though they all knew I was an atheist, all of my devil spawn were christened in a Catholic Church with this atheist standing in the proper position (I was not required to participate).

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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22-12-2014, 03:49 PM
RE: Disconcerting conversation today at church.
(22-12-2014 03:44 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  There has to be one truth. If there isn't, there is no truth.

Yeah and?

I'm saying no one has found it yet as no one but God has omniscience.

100% truth is impossible for humans. Actual knowledge is impossible for beings without omniscience.

This is why God gives His beloved faith (Eph 2:8).

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22-12-2014, 03:55 PM
RE: Disconcerting conversation today at church.
(22-12-2014 03:49 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(22-12-2014 03:44 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  There has to be one truth. If there isn't, there is no truth.

Yeah and?

I'm saying no one has found it yet as no one but God has omniscience.

100% truth is impossible for humans. Actual knowledge is impossible for beings without omniscience.

This is why God gives His beloved faith (Eph 2:8).

Then why do you talk about "your own personal evidence" if you just use "faith". You don't even need faith to believe in God. You can refute atheism by asking "Is is possible that you could be wrong about everything you know?". I don't care about faith, I only care about truth. The truth is that everyone is destined for an eternity in hell.

Truth seeker.
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22-12-2014, 04:00 PM
RE: Disconcerting conversation today at church.
(22-12-2014 03:55 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(22-12-2014 03:49 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yeah and?

I'm saying no one has found it yet as no one but God has omniscience.

100% truth is impossible for humans. Actual knowledge is impossible for beings without omniscience.

This is why God gives His beloved faith (Eph 2:8).

Then why do you talk about "your own personal evidence" if you just use "faith". You don't even need faith to believe in God. You can refute atheism by asking "Is is possible that you could be wrong about everything you know?". I don't care about faith, I only care about truth. The truth is that everyone is destined for an eternity in hell.

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"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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22-12-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: Disconcerting conversation today at church.
(22-12-2014 03:55 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(22-12-2014 03:49 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yeah and?

I'm saying no one has found it yet as no one but God has omniscience.

100% truth is impossible for humans. Actual knowledge is impossible for beings without omniscience.

This is why God gives His beloved faith (Eph 2:8).

Then why do you talk about "your own personal evidence" if you just use "faith". You don't even need faith to believe in God. You can refute atheism by asking "Is is possible that you could be wrong about everything you know?". I don't care about faith, I only care about truth. The truth is that everyone is destined for an eternity in hell.

I just realized you're a theist troll.

I have a USDD just for you. Enjoy!

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