Discrimination by private businesses
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01-07-2015, 05:29 AM
RE: Discrimination by private businesses
(30-06-2015 09:03 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(30-06-2015 08:47 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
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We sort of had this conversation already and decided it was in the best interest of society that public businesses not be allowed to discriminate.

I think when it becomes impossible for a minority to conduct commerce at all--because discrimination is so pervasive as to make commerce difficult or even impossible--that in those circumstances a more intrusive government response is necessary. Is that kind of response needed today? I don't think so. I just want to know which businesses want to discriminate so I can avoid them.

Slippery slope.
Allowing any opens the door to eventual institutionalized discrimination. See Rev's post above.

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01-07-2015, 05:31 AM
RE: Discrimination by private businesses
(01-07-2015 04:49 AM)Banjo Wrote:  As an artist I reserve the right to choose for whom I play. As an example, playing a Nazi rally would be in opposition to what my art, my intellectual property, was about.

But that is not what the law covers.

What you cannot do is bar members of a protected class from buying a ticket and attending a concert you are performing for the public.

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01-07-2015, 05:41 AM
RE: Discrimination by private businesses
Any business that refuses to take people's money for such trivial, narrow mindedness - -deserves to fail......

The nice part - is they probably will.......

Word gets around.

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01-07-2015, 05:57 AM
RE: Discrimination by private businesses
IMO, a public accommodation business should provide its full product line to all customers. There are reasons for denying a product, such as not being available on a particular date, or not having the capacity to fill an order. But if you don't sell pork products, or penis cakes, for example, to anyone, no one can force you to offer them. You are not obligated to go outside of your standard product line to accommodate a customer.

There are lots of historical examples that show what shits majority-group humans can be to minority groups, so I don't have a problem with the idea of designating protected groups. Often the market doesn't correct inequities; it enhances them. The minority group gets a smaller, poorer quality selection of products/services at a higher price, especially in areas where the majority group is firmly in control, like small towns. The market reinforces the status quo, including the second-class status of the minority group. I think designating certain groups as protected classes helps move the market towards a more equitable position over time, but I am not sure whether any class should be protected in perpetuity.
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01-07-2015, 06:36 AM
RE: Discrimination by private businesses
(01-07-2015 04:49 AM)Banjo Wrote:  As an artist I reserve the right to choose for whom I play. As an example, playing a Nazi rally would be in opposition to what my art, my intellectual property, was about.

Is that substantially different than a photographer refusing to shoot an event for a group he doesn't approve of? Or a baker not wanting to design a cake? In each case there is some kind of skill and artistry being exerted.

If the issue is the nature of the customer, refusal of the KKK or Nazis is en easy one to sympathize with. Refusal to perform for a political party or a religious organization seems more questionable to me. Discriminating against an LGBT group I can't justify.

I do want to thank all the replies so far. It has been a huge help at least in understanding where my discomfort lies. I've been feeling a bit hypocritical for being in favor of allowing some kinds of discrimination and against others.

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01-07-2015, 04:58 PM
RE: Discrimination by private businesses
(01-07-2015 06:36 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Is that substantially different than a photographer refusing to shoot an event for a group he doesn't approve of? Or a baker not wanting to design a cake? In each case there is some kind of skill and artistry being exerted.

If the issue is the nature of the customer, refusal of the KKK or Nazis is en easy one to sympathize with. Refusal to perform for a political party or a religious organization seems more questionable to me. Discriminating against an LGBT group I can't justify.

I do want to thank all the replies so far. It has been a huge help at least in understanding where my discomfort lies. I've been feeling a bit hypocritical for being in favor of allowing some kinds of discrimination and against others.

I think it goes both ways. We cannot discount the rights of one at the expense of another.

Freedom of choice = Free Will = St Augustine's City of God...

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01-07-2015, 04:59 PM
RE: Discrimination by private businesses
(01-07-2015 05:31 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-07-2015 04:49 AM)Banjo Wrote:  As an artist I reserve the right to choose for whom I play. As an example, playing a Nazi rally would be in opposition to what my art, my intellectual property, was about.

But that is not what the law covers.

What you cannot do is bar members of a protected class from buying a ticket and attending a concert you are performing for the public.

Sure. If we play an open concert anyone can come.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
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02-07-2015, 11:55 AM
RE: Discrimination by private businesses
Fortunately the Supreme Court has already addressed this issue. A business that serves the public must serve the entire public. It does have the right to protect its business by turning away disruptive customers, etc but it cannot turn someone away because of what they are I.e. minority.

I just read about an actor that starred in an anti-gay movie even though he is pro-gay. He felt it showed the depth of his acting ability and he respects freedom of speech.

I would love to make a cartoon for a persecution support group. One guy stands up and shares how he was forced to receive money from a sinner while the guy next to him shares how his wife was stoned to death in the Middle East for wearing a cross around her neck.
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02-07-2015, 05:52 PM
RE: Discrimination by private businesses
http://www.kdrv.com/news/regional/Sweet_..._Case.html


Quote:Owners of a Portland-area bakery that denied service to a same-sex couple must pay $135,000 in damages.

Oregon's Bureau of Labor and Industries on Thursday ruled that Sweet Cakes by Melissa's refusal to bake a wedding cake for Laurel and Rachel Bowman-Cryer constituted unlawful discrimination. The agency said a state exemption for religious organizations and schools does not allow private business owners to deny service to potential customers because of sexual orientation. The bakers said their refusal to bake was prompted by religious beliefs.

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02-07-2015, 06:43 PM
RE: Discrimination by private businesses
(29-06-2015 11:32 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Of course then you get to the signs that used to be all over that said "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." You don't see those much any more.

Having managed businesses in SoCal for 15 years, I was not bothered at all by telling obstreperous customers where the door was. If you came into my custom framing shop wanting to frame a WBC "God hates fags" sign, I would have informed you that your money wasn't worth that much to me, and swallowed the loss.

I think businesses should be allowed to discriminate so long as life or property loss are not on the line. I also think those businesses should collect the consequences of such decisions in the form of protests outside their stores, organized boycotts, and so forth.
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