Discussion With Lightvader
Thread Closed 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
19-06-2013, 01:08 AM
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
Sorry,i was wrong. Yes,you are right. Wolfes and dogs can produce fertile offspring when they mate

KC IS A LIAR!!!! HE PROMISED ME VANILLA CAKES AND GAVE ME STRAWBERRY CAKE Weeping
Find all posts by this user
19-06-2013, 01:11 AM
 
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(19-06-2013 12:41 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  science doesnt require faith. Science simply offers the truth,wich requires no faith

Truth is relative. Sometimes science has to correct itself, which is a good thing, but the truth that it proposes is imperfect, only temporal in its truthfulness. We have faith in the process as being as good as it can be at any given time. Its pretty much the same, believe it or not, with theology. There are always new manuscripts, new archaeological discoveries, new insights. Growing knowledge in language, culture, history.

The atheist, in my opinion, far too often cringes unnecessarily at the word faith while overestimating the potential for science. They have a quixotic almost utopian attitude towards science.
19-06-2013, 01:21 AM
 
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(19-06-2013 01:08 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  Sorry,i was wrong. Yes,you are right. Wolfes and dogs can produce fertile offspring when they mate

So to answer your question "How did the millions of species fit in a boat?" It wouldn't have been millions. Some estimate that as few as 43 kinds of mammals, 74 kinds of birds and 10 kinds of reptiles could have produced the variety of species known today. A more liberal estimation would be 72 kinds of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird kinds would have been sufficient.

Though there are about 1,300,000 species of animals, over 60 percent are insects. Only 5,000 are mammals, including whales and porpoises which would have remined outside the ark. Only about 290 species of land mammals are larger than sheep and 1,360 are smaller than rats.

Now, lets consider the "boat" itself. It wasn't a boat or a ship by any means. The word ark means chest. It was a box. About the size of the Titanic. There would have been plenty of room.

Edited To Add I should have elaborated more on that final conclusion.

The Bible gives the deminsions of the ark as 300 Cubits long, 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits high. A cubit is about 17.5 inches (44.5 cm) That's a conservative estimate (some say nearer to 56 or 61 cm). The ark measured 437 ft 6 in. x 72 ft 11 in. x 43 ft 9 in. (133.5 m by 22.3 m by 13.4 m.) The proportion of length to width of 6 to 1 used by modern naval architects. That means approx. 1,400,000 cu ft (40,000 cu m). With two floors (giving strength) and three decks it provided a total of about 96,000 sq ft (8,900 sq m) of space. There was an opening a cubit in height near the roof that extended around the four sides that amounted to 1,500 sq ft (140 sq m) for ventilation.
19-06-2013, 01:50 AM (This post was last modified: 19-06-2013 05:38 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
Sorry. Sock puppet creating people, cannot possibly expect to show up here and create new rules. This is a public forum. There is a boxing ring for debates. That has been agreed upon by the forum. There are no "private" discussions on the internet. If TheConflictedGayTheist/SockPuppet/David Lee/Mini Gun Fodder wants a "private" discussion, he can take it to his own blog. No one here has to be subjected to this crap on The Thinking Atheist forum. He wants no competition for his deluded nonsense, and he wants to be free to spout his uneducated bullshit, unchallenged. Well guess what ? Ain't gonna happen here.

From the other thread :

All big floods leave large silt layers. There is no world-wide silt layer, or even a silt layer that would account for a local flood which would deposit a boat on Mt. Ararat. There IS world-wide archaeological evidence of continuous uninterrupted human habitation, including in Turkey (where Mt Ararat is), and in Israel, in Cairio, in Rome, in Athens, in Ur, for tens of thousands of years, many places far far longer, and NO evidence of any flood. There there was no large flood in the ancient Near East. There is not a shred of evidence for it. It there had been, there would be archaeological evidence for it. There is not.

Only a culture which was cognizant of shipbuilding could build a sea-worthy vessel of that size. No one in the ancient Near East was a "sea-faring culture", until the Sea Peoples came to the Levant, (the Phoenicians).

The "biblical" flood is absolutely refuted by :
1. Erosion
The patterns of erosion observed world wide absolutely refute any possible world-wide flood in the last 6000-8000 years. A global flood cannot explain geological formations where sedimentary rocks have been tilted and eroded then more sedimentary layers deposited on top, obviously needing long periods of time for these to happen. It cannot explain the erosion of valleys in sedimentary rock mountains. In another example, the flood, had it occurred, would have produced effects spread over the entire world. Erosion should be evenly distributed, yet the levels of erosion in, for example, the Alps, the Urals, the Appalachians and the Rocky Mountains are vastly different.

2 Geological dating.
Geochronology is the science of determining the absolute age of rocks, fossils, and sediments by a variety of techniques. These methods indicate that the Earth as a whole is at least 4.5 billion years old, and that the strata that were deposited gradually over many millions of years.

3. Paleontology
If the flood were responsible for fossilization, then all the animals now fossilized must have been living together on the Earth just before the flood. Based on estimates of the number of remains buried in specific sites that are known, this would mean there was a huge density of vertebrates, (2100 per acre) . That is impossible. The entire geologic record is found in many places, showing erosion and burrowing through older layers, which is impossible on a short ("flood of 150 days") timescale. Carbonate hardgrounds and fossils associated with them show that the so-called flood sediments include evidence of long breaks in deposition that are completely inconsistent with a one time flood.

4. Geochemistry
"Flood geology" cannot explain the alternation between calcite seas and aragonite seas through the Phanerozoic. The cyclical pattern of carbonate hardgrounds, calcitic and aragonitic ooids, and calcite-shelled fauna was controlled by seafloor spreading rates and the flushing of seawater through hydrothermal vents which changes its Magnesium/Calcium ratio.
Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Apocalypse : pretty soon / Apprentice woologist in training.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist & Levitating Yogi
Sent by Jebus to put the stud back in Bible Study.
Find all posts by this user
[+] 2 users Like Bucky Ball's post
19-06-2013, 01:57 AM (This post was last modified: 19-06-2013 02:22 AM by Lightvader.)
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(19-06-2013 01:21 AM)David Lee Wrote:  So to answer your question "How did the millions of species fit in a boat?" It wouldn't have been millions. Some estimate that as few as 43 kinds of mammals, 74 kinds of birds and 10 kinds of reptiles could have produced the variety of species known today.
can you state your reference?
Quote:A more liberal estimation would be 72kinds of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird kinds would have been sufficient.
again,can you cite your source?
Quote:Though there are about 1,300,000 species of animals, over 60 percent are insects. Only 5,000 are mammals, including whales and porpoises which would have remined outside the ark.
well,they could not. If there really was that much rainfall as the bible suggests,most saltwater creatures would die.
Quote: Only about 290 species of land mammals are larger than sheep and 1,360 are smaller than rats.
again,cite your source
Quote:Now, lets consider the "boat" itself. It wasn't a boat or a ship by any means. The word ark means chest. It was a box. About the size of the Titanic. There would have been plenty of room.
yes,i know the dimensions. I Better adress it as ship then

and could you please also comment on the other questions?

KC IS A LIAR!!!! HE PROMISED ME VANILLA CAKES AND GAVE ME STRAWBERRY CAKE Weeping
Find all posts by this user
19-06-2013, 02:05 AM
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(19-06-2013 01:50 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Sorry. Sock puppet creating people, cannot possibly expect to show up here and create new rules. This is a public forum. There is a boxing ring for debates.isnt this tread in the boxing ring? That has been agreed upon by the forum. There are no "private" discussions on the internet. If TheConflictedGayTheist/SockPuppet/David Lee/MiniGun Fodder wants a "private" discussion, he can take it to his own blog. No one here has to be subjected to this crap on The Thinking Atheist forum. He wants no competition for his deluded nonsense, and he wants to be free to spout his uneducated bullshit, unchallenged. Well guess what ? Ain't gonna happen here.

From the other thread :
i was also going to use that,but i would really like to hear his responses to my questions i asked.

All big floods leave large silt layers. There is no world-wide silt layer, or even a silt layer that would account for a local flood which would deposit a boat on Mt. Ararat. There IS world-wide archaeological evidence of continuous uninterrupted human habitation, including in Turkey (where Mt Ararat is), and in Israel, in Cairio, in Rome, in Athens, in Ur, for tens of thousands of years, many places far far longer, and NO evidence of any flood. There there was no large flood in the ancient Near East. There is not a shred of evidence for it. It there had been, there would be archaeological evidence for it. There is not.

Only a culture which was cognizant of shipbuilding could build a sea-worthy vessel of that size. No one in the ancient Near East was a "sea-faring culture", until the Sea Peoples came to the Levant, (the Phoenicians).

The "biblical" flood is absolutely refuted by :
1. Erosion
The patterns of erosion observed world wide absolutely refute any possible world-wide flood in the last 6000-8000 years. A global flood cannot explain geological formations where sedimentary rocks have been tilted and eroded then more sedimentary layers deposited on top, obviously needing long periods of time for these to happen. It cannot explain the erosion of valleys in sedimentary rock mountains. In another example, the flood, had it occurred, would have produced effects spread over the entire world. Erosion should be evenly distributed, yet the levels of erosion in, for example, the Alps, the Urals, the Appalachians and the Rocky Mountains are vastly different.

2 Geological dating.
Geochronology is the science of determining the absolute age of rocks, fossils, and sediments by a variety of techniques. These methods indicate that the Earth as a whole is at least 4.5 billion years old, and that the strata that were deposited gradually over many millions of years.

3. Paleontology
If the flood were responsible for fossilization, then all the animals now fossilized must have been living together on the Earth just before the flood. Based on estimates of the number of remains buried in specific sites that are known, this would mean there was a huge density of vertebrates, (2100 per acre) . That is impossible. The entire geologic record is found in many places, showing erosion and burrowing through older layers, which is impossible on a short ("flood of 150 days") timescale. Carbonate hardgrounds and fossils associated with them show that the so-called flood sediments include evidence of long breaks in deposition that are completely inconsistent with a one time flood.

4. Geochemistry
"Flood geology" cannot explain the alternation between calcite seas and aragonite seas through the Phanerozoic. The cyclical pattern of carbonate hardgrounds, calcitic and aragonitic ooids, and calcite-shelled fauna was controlled by seafloor spreading rates and the flushing of seawater through hydrothermal vents which changes its Magnesium/Calcium ratio.
Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Apocalypse : pretty soon / Apprentice woologist in training.

KC IS A LIAR!!!! HE PROMISED ME VANILLA CAKES AND GAVE ME STRAWBERRY CAKE Weeping
Find all posts by this user
19-06-2013, 02:20 AM
 
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(19-06-2013 01:57 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  can you state your reference? again,can you cite your source?

The Deluge Story in Stone, by B. C. Nelson, 1949, p. 156; The Flood in the Light of the Bible, Geology, and Archaeology, by A. M. Rehwinkel, 1957, p. 69.

Quote:well,they could not. If there really was that much rainfall as the bible suggests,most saltwater creatures would die.

Are you positive? What do you base this upon? Do saltwater dolphins not swim in freshwater for periods of time? How much of the water canopy would have to pollute the ocean for how long to kill off the saltwater creatures?

Quote:yes,i know that. I Better adress it as ship then

Not really. A ship is powered by some means and is capable of being steered. Not so with the ark. It was a floating chest.
19-06-2013, 02:32 AM
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(19-06-2013 02:20 AM)David Lee Wrote:  
(19-06-2013 01:57 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  can you state your reference? again,can you cite your source?

The Deluge Story in Stone, by B. C. Nelson, 1949, p. 156; The Flood in the Light of the Bible, Geology, and Archaeology, by A. M. Rehwinkel, 1957, p. 69.
im going to look into them. In the meantime,can you respond to the other questions?
Quote:well,they could not. If there really was that much rainfall as the bible suggests,most saltwater creatures would die.

Are you positive? What do you base this upon? Do saltwater dolphins not swim in freshwater for periods of time? How much of the water canopy would have to pollute the ocean for how long to kill off the saltwater creatures?

read this article http://www.livescience.com/32167-can-sal...water.html
Quote:yes,i know that. I Better adress it as ship then

Not really. A ship is powered by some means and is capable of being steered. Not so with the ark. It was a floating chest.
i will call it ark

KC IS A LIAR!!!! HE PROMISED ME VANILLA CAKES AND GAVE ME STRAWBERRY CAKE Weeping
Find all posts by this user
19-06-2013, 02:54 AM
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(19-06-2013 01:11 AM)David Lee Wrote:  Truth is relative.
aaaaand I'm out.
Find all posts by this user
[+] 3 users Like fuckingpowerful's post
19-06-2013, 03:01 AM
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(19-06-2013 02:54 AM)fuckingpowerful Wrote:  
(19-06-2013 01:11 AM)David Lee Wrote:  Truth is relative.
aaaaand I'm out.

waait,where did he post that? Its not in a post i saw or quoted.
*edit* found it *edit*

KC IS A LIAR!!!! HE PROMISED ME VANILLA CAKES AND GAVE ME STRAWBERRY CAKE Weeping
Find all posts by this user
[+] 1 user Likes Lightvader's post
Thread Closed 
Forum Jump: