Discussion With Lightvader
Thread Closed 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
19-06-2013, 08:42 PM
 
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
Question #3. "How did these exotic animals survive the temperatures? Penguins and polar bears for example."

Here again, you need to help me with your science. When I was a kid I was taught in science class that the earth at one time had a much milder climate. Is this still the view of science?

Of course, at the same time we contemplate that, the answer to #1 and #2 could have some bearing on the subject. It is possible that these exotic animals need'nt have been involved at all.
20-06-2013, 12:06 PM
 
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
Question #4. "How did he get the birds to join and not to fly out?"

The bird handlers, who dressed in giant feather costumes carried small projectiles with a mild sedative. Blow darts, in fact. Only joking, of course.

I would imagine that if the rain was coming down pretty hard they would gladly stay inside, but if not, then they would gladly go outside and pearch on the nearly flat roof of the ark. This is simply conjecture, of course, but in context, where would they have gone without returning?
20-06-2013, 09:04 PM
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(19-06-2013 05:26 PM)David Lee Wrote:  The second question was "How did Noah & family get exotic animals like polar bears, penguins, boa's, ect?"
We established in the first question that the biblical kinds needn't apply to each breed of species, so of the clean animals there were to be 7 and of the unclean animals 2. They wouldn't necessarily need polar bears but bears, and boa's but snakes or of fowl, those in each kind which could produce fertile offspring.



1.(43 mammals,74 birds,10 reptiles)
i dont agree with the numbers,more on that later.
Lets suppose that there where only these animals on the ark for argument's sake.
1.1 they would be different species,wich wouldnt create vertile offspring at all when crossbreeding(if thats even posible with all those different physical traits)
1.2 if these animals would inbreed,they would go extinct because there isnt enough genetic variation(this is also why your numbers are wrong) . Even if they did manage to get 2 of every species,they would extinct for the same reason. I suggest you read a bit about effective population size
2.
Quote:We established in the first question that the biblical kinds needn't apply to each breed of species
we havent established that at all. The reason why wolfs and dogs can produce vertile offspring,is because the wolves and dogs are subspecies
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies


this post shows how little you know about science.

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
Find all posts by this user
20-06-2013, 09:08 PM
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(20-06-2013 12:06 PM)David Lee Wrote:  I would imagine that if the rain was coming down pretty hard they would gladly stay inside, but if not, then they would gladly go outside and pearch on the nearly flat roof of the ark. This is simply conjecture, of course, but in context, where would they have gone without returning?

1.did ya ever look at bird documentaries? Or even watch birds when it rains? They go out in the rain to bathe
2.and then,what held thousands of birds from sitting on the arks deck?
3.lets say it rained that heavy and produced all that water. Where did it come from and where did it go?

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
Find all posts by this user
20-06-2013, 09:15 PM
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(19-06-2013 08:42 PM)David Lee Wrote:  Question #3. "How did these exotic animals survive the temperatures? Penguins and polar bears for example."

Here again, you need to help me with your science. When I was a kid I was taught in science class that the earth at one time had a much milder climate. Is this still the view of science?
at one time ,yes. But how many years ago?


read http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_...ic_optimum about the climate roughly 6000 yrs ago.
Even with that climate,penguings and polar bears wouldnt survive the climate around europa&asia

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
Find all posts by this user
20-06-2013, 10:00 PM
 
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(20-06-2013 09:04 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  1.(43 mammals,74 birds,10 reptiles)
i dont agree with the numbers,more on that later.

Ok. What numbers would you suggest?

Lighvader Wrote:Lets suppose that there where only these animals on the ark for argument's sake.

1.1 they would be different species,wich wouldnt create vertile offspring at all when crossbreeding(if thats even posible with all those different physical traits)

Why? The Bible term kinds mean that they have to be able to produce fertile offspring, so why would you determine crossbreeding would be a problem?

Lighvader Wrote:1.2 if these animals would inbreed,they would go extinct because there isnt enough genetic variation(this is also why your numbers are wrong) . Even if they did manage to get 2 of every species,they would extinct for the same reason. I suggest you read a bit about effective population size

I suggest you read about Bible kinds.

Do I understand you clearly? You are saying that even if they were 2 of every Bible kinds, that is capable of producing fertile offspring that interbreeding would cause them to become extinct. Like, say, for example, lions in Tanzania's Ngorongoro Crater? In one year on the ark or afterwards upon release?

The reason I ask is that it puzzles me as to how that problem would have been dealt with under the current scientific estimation?

Lighvader Wrote:2.
David Wrote:We established in the first question that the biblical kinds needn't apply to each breed of species
we havent established that at all. The reason why wolfs and dogs can produce vertile offspring,is because the wolves and dogs are subspecies
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies

Ok. That doesn't matter. Whatever you want to call it. The point is that the Bible makes it clear that each kind must be able to produce fertile offspring.

Lighvader Wrote:this post shows how little you know about science.

I'm the Bible guy, remember? You are the science guy.
20-06-2013, 10:08 PM
 
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(20-06-2013 09:08 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  1.did ya ever look at bird documentaries? Or even watch birds when it rains? They go out in the rain to bathe

Ok, then, you have your possible solution. They went outside and bathed.

Lightvader Wrote:2.and then,what held thousands of birds from sitting on the arks deck?

How many? What was the space? What size would it require? Do your science.

Lightvader Wrote:3.lets say it rained that heavy and produced all that water. Where did it come from and where did it go?

Genesis 1:6-8 And God went on to say: "Let an expanse come to be in between the waters and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters." Then God proceeded to make the expanse and to make a division between the waters that should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should be above the expanse. And it came to be so. And God began to call the expanse Heaven. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a second day.

When God created the earth he lifted a great deal of water into the atmosphere, so there was a protective water vapor canopy surrounding the earth. Until the flood.

2 Peter 3:5-6 For, according to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of old and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; and by those [means] the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water.

This water was released for the flood.
20-06-2013, 10:15 PM
 
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(20-06-2013 09:15 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  read http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_...ic_optimum about the climate roughly 6000 yrs ago.
Even with that climate,penguings and polar bears wouldnt survive the climate around europa&asia

How do we establish this?
20-06-2013, 10:36 PM
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(20-06-2013 10:00 PM)David Lee Wrote:  
(20-06-2013 09:04 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  1.(43 mammals,74 birds,10 reptiles)
i dont agree with the numbers,more on that later.

Ok. What numbers would you suggest?
the numbers i would suggest wouldnt fit on the ark
Lighvader Wrote:Lets suppose that there where only these animals on the ark for argument's sake.

1.1 they would be different species,wich wouldnt create vertile offspring at all when crossbreeding(if thats even posible with all those different physical traits)

Why? The Bible term kinds mean that they have to be able to produce fertile offspring, so why would you determine crossbreeding would be a problem?
lemme ask you a question first. Do you know what crossbreeding is?
If you crossbreed 2 different SPECIES,you get INVERTILE offspring

Lighvader Wrote:1.2 if these animals would inbreed,they would go extinct because there isnt enough genetic variation(this is also why your numbers are wrong) . Even if they did manage to get 2 of every species,they would extinct for the same reason. I suggest you read a bit about effective population size

I suggest you read about Bible kinds.

Do I understand you clearly? You are saying that even if they were 2 of every Bible kinds, that is capable of producing fertile offspring that interbreeding would cause them to become extinct. Like, say, for example, lions in Tanzania's Ngorongoro Crater? In one year on the ark or afterwards upon release?
after a few generations. If you read the wiki about efective population size there is a formula on how to calculate it
The reason I ask is that it puzzles me as to how that problem would have been dealt with under the current scientific estimation?
well,read the wiki about effective population size
Lighvader Wrote:2.we havent established that at all. The reason why wolfs and dogs can produce vertile offspring,is because the wolves and dogs are subspecies
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies

Ok. That doesn't matter. Whatever you want to call it. The point is that the Bible makes it clear that each kind must be able to produce fertile offspring.
no,it doesnt
Lighvader Wrote:this post shows how little you know about science.

I'm the Bible guy, remember? You are the science guy.
but i take time to read and examine the bible from an objective viewpoint. I expect the same from the oposite side

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
Find all posts by this user
20-06-2013, 10:41 PM
RE: Discussion With Lightvader
(20-06-2013 10:08 PM)David Lee Wrote:  
(20-06-2013 09:08 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  1.did ya ever look at bird documentaries? Or even watch birds when it rains? They go out in the rain to bathe

Ok, then, you have your possible solution. They went outside and bathed.
i mean,what holds them from flying of and not comming back? The post i gave was to show that the rain doesnt hold birds from flying off
Lightvader Wrote:2.and then,what held thousands of birds from sitting on the arks deck?

How many? What was the space? What size would it require? Do your science.
i do not know how much birds there where back then,but i mean all the birds of the region.as the size,you know the dimensions of the ark. Calculate it
Lightvader Wrote:3.lets say it rained that heavy and produced all that water. Where did it come from and where did it go?

Genesis 1:6-8 And God went on to say: "Let an expanse come to be in between the waters and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters." Then God proceeded to make the expanse and to make a division between the waters that should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should be above the expanse. And it came to be so. And God began to call the expanse Heaven. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a second day.

When God created the earth he lifted a great deal of water into the atmosphere, so there was a protective water vapor canopy surrounding the earth. Until the flood.

2 Peter 3:5-6 For, according to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of old and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; and by those [means] the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water.

This water was released for the flood.
dude.
Dude.
Dude.
Im talking about a scientific explonation

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
Find all posts by this user
Thread Closed 
Forum Jump: