Discussion about god
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20-09-2013, 04:13 AM
Discussion about god
Hi

I recently went with my very religious friends on a trip.They know that i am an atheist but thats no big deal here in europe.At some point in the trip the father of my friend started asking if i knew what my name meant ( i have a biblical name ) and i immediately knew where this was going. I wasn´t in the mood to be converted to Christianity at the moment so i tried to casually change topic...it didn't work (btw , the father of my friend is a medical doctor and as a hobby a preacher ).So after listening to fairytales for about 30 minutes i said that it was a nice story ( it wasn´t , i prefer harry potter ), but that i don't belief in any god/gods . A debate about the existence of god started ( it was a friendly and calm debate ) . After a while he started with what i think was "blinding with science". H started to talk about quantum logic , the brain and reality and quoted various philosophers etc.The discussion continued until i pointed to the various contradictions and logical fallacies in the bible, and that an all knowing creator would have included scientifically useful information in the bible. The response was that all major scientific discoveries are described in the bible , and that it is true that many things in the bible seem illogical , but that one simply needs faith to understand them -_- . He then pointed me at various books regarding scientific discoveries in the bible.

my question is...how do i counter the "blinding with science " debate tactic ?
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20-09-2013, 04:29 AM
RE: Discussion about god
Ask them how science exactly is a threat to religion, they will supply you the ammo themselves.
For in all of its purpose science never went out to "disprove" god, it merely said: "This work because of reasons"... i guess the whole "science is evil" thing is because it doesnt say "This work because of god" or "prayer doesnt do crap"

So... i think i would just find out where their source of "anti-science" comes from and take it from there.
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20-09-2013, 09:47 AM (This post was last modified: 20-09-2013 09:52 AM by Impulse.)
RE: Discussion about god
I think he is trying to say that because you are "limiting yourself" to science, you have closed your mind against accepting things without scientific proof.

My response would be, "damn right!"

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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20-09-2013, 11:02 AM
RE: Discussion about god
You could ask which biblical verses represent the laws of thermodynamics, general/special relativity, gravitation,or atomic structure.

You can lead a theist to reason, but, you cannot make him think.
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20-09-2013, 11:09 AM
RE: Discussion about god
(20-09-2013 11:02 AM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  You could ask which biblical verses represent the laws of thermodynamics, general/special relativity, gravitation,or atomic structure.

Better yet, ask him about the Bible verses concerning the cure for leprosy. Laughat



Leviticus 14:49-53
King James Version (KJV)

49 And he shall take to cleanse the house two birds, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:

50 And he shall kill the one of the birds in an earthen vessel over running water:

51 And he shall take the cedar wood, and the hyssop, and the scarlet, and the living bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird, and in the running water, and sprinkle the house seven times:

52 And he shall cleanse the house with the blood of the bird, and with the running water, and with the living bird, and with the cedar wood, and with the hyssop, and with the scarlet:

53 But he shall let go the living bird out of the city into the open fields, and make an atonement for the house: and it shall be clean.

[Image: GrumpyCat_01.gif]
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20-09-2013, 06:25 PM
RE: Discussion about god
Ask him this ..."If god came to you and told you that he wanted you to kill your son because as part of his divine plan, he needed to motivate a few people through the use of your son's death. He also needed you to suffer for a long time in prison and while in prison you will be an influencing tool of god's will for many inmates who have lost their way."

Ask him..."Would you do it" ?

Ask him in front of his son

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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20-09-2013, 11:21 PM
RE: Discussion about god
(20-09-2013 04:13 AM)H2O2 Wrote:  He then pointed me at various books regarding scientific discoveries in the bible.

It would be interesting to see what he "pointed you at". It's hard to give you a specific answer without knowing specifically what you are up against. However, "scientific discoveries in the bible" is an oxymoron, so it won't be too difficult to refute.

If you have some spare time, look up rationalwiki.org. Lot's of good stuff there.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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21-09-2013, 07:09 PM
RE: Discussion about god
The God of religion is based on a quite dogmatic faith at times.
Belief is not the same as scientific proofs or high degrees of probability.
Belief involves varying degrees of faith, not the proofs of science.
Many Christian believers really think they 'know' and turn faith in to dogma.

Some atheists too, dogmatically deny a possible ineffable Cosmic Good.
AS Paul Tillich pointed out.. doubt is not the real opposite of faith, it is a part of faith.
Faith requires doubt, not certainty.
Even Richard Dawkins is an agnostic.
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21-09-2013, 07:33 PM
RE: Discussion about god
(20-09-2013 04:13 AM)H2O2 Wrote:  Hi

I recently went with my very religious friends on a trip.They know that i am an atheist but thats no big deal here in europe.At some point in the trip the father of my friend started asking if i knew what my name meant ( i have a biblical name ) and i immediately knew where this was going. I wasn´t in the mood to be converted to Christianity at the moment so i tried to casually change topic...it didn't work (btw , the father of my friend is a medical doctor and as a hobby a preacher ).So after listening to fairytales for about 30 minutes i said that it was a nice story ( it wasn´t , i prefer harry potter ), but that i don't belief in any god/gods . A debate about the existence of god started ( it was a friendly and calm debate ) . After a while he started with what i think was "blinding with science". H started to talk about quantum logic , the brain and reality and quoted various philosophers etc.The discussion continued until i pointed to the various contradictions and logical fallacies in the bible, and that an all knowing creator would have included scientifically useful information in the bible. The response was that all major scientific discoveries are described in the bible , and that it is true that many things in the bible seem illogical , but that one simply needs faith to understand them -_- . He then pointed me at various books regarding scientific discoveries in the bible.

my question is...how do i counter the "blinding with science " debate tactic ?

With what we know know, we can always go back to the bible or koran and point to verses that could be interpreted as supporting our current knowledge of science. But this is just wishful thinking on the part of the interpreter. There are not many clear scientific statements in the bible.
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