Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
05-08-2015, 11:01 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(03-08-2015 04:55 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Counter arguments from Mormon apologists try to assert that the DNA of Lehi and his followers would have been obscured over time by the more dominant genetic force of the Native Americans with whom they intermixed upon arrival and North America. This argument doesn’t pass scrutiny however. That is because this assertion contradicts the Book of Mormon.
(03-08-2015 04:55 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Ether 2:5 and the Book of Mormon states, “and it came to pass that the Lord commanded them that they should go forth into the wilderness, yea, into that quarter where there never had man been.”
(03-08-2015 04:55 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  As such, the Book of Mormon clearly states there was nobody there. And 600 BCE there was approximately several million Native American Indians living in the Americas. If a small group of Israelites entered such a massive native population it will be very, very hard to detect their genes 200, 2000 or even 20,000 years later. However, that scenario does not fit with what the Book of Mormon clearly states, and as per what the Mormon prophets have taught for over 175 years.
I am confused.
What contradiction are you talking about?
How does Ether 2:5 show that "followers of Lehi could NOT be intermixed with Native Americans upon arrival in America?

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-08-2015, 11:09 PM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2015 11:12 PM by Alla.)
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(05-08-2015 10:16 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(05-08-2015 09:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  Lanny D. Bell(SMART DUDE FROM THE VIDEO), "The Ancient Egyptian 'Books of Breathing,' the Mormon 'Book of Abraham,' and the Development of Egyptology in America,"
Quote:
Finally, we are prepared to deal with the questions surrounding the suggested phallus in P. JS I. Gee 1992, pp. 101-102, has already objected that there is not enough available space to reconstruct the Isis kestrel here. Let me state clearly at the outset my conviction that the questionable traces above the head of the Osiris figure are actually the remains of his right hand;

IN OTHER WORDS, Joseph Smith WAS CORRECT IN HIS UNDERSTANDING of the drawing AT THIS POINT.

If Bell changed his mind on one thing and first he said that Joseph Smith was wrong and later he said that Joseph Smith's "understanding was correct at this point" I have a reason to assume that he(Bell) can be wrong on other things.

You know what they say about when you assume something right? It makes as ass out of you and........well actually in this case, it's only you. Dodgy

Come on, Alla. Get off of this whole Egyptian translation thing. Let's say for one minute that Smith actually, in good, conscience, tried to translate the hieroglyphs and he was wrong. So what? That is not in any way even close to the inconsistencies in Mormonism GWG has pointed out because Smith, like many before him, unsuccessfully translated the glyphs. That again, is not even the crux of the argument. Please address the other myriad of questions GWG has posed that actually DO make a difference. I can't speak for everyone here but I am actually interested in what you have to say. So please quit beating this irrelevant horse and get on with it. If you drop it, I am willing to bet he won't bring it up again. Here is your chance to defend Mormonism and you are wasting it on a completely irrelevant thing. It is akin to a minister arguing what sandal size Jesus was. If this isn't what convinced you, then let it go.
I addressed First Vision and I explained that 3 versions have no contradictions.
I started to address DNA question.
I don't want to address everything at the same time.
I am not in a hurry.
............................................
Egyptologist BELL(changed his mind): it is clear Joseph Smith's understanding was correct.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-08-2015, 01:44 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
GWG, this is probably the most informative thread I've ever seen on here. Thank you.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like TheStraightener's post
06-08-2015, 02:32 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
I have to say that I have tremendously enjoyed this thread. I am very impressed with both the volume and quality of posts from GWG. Well done. I often feel the need to involve myself in arguments with Mormons because I used to be one. I feel responsible to use my experience to help people get out. However, there was no need here whatsoever. I felt completely comfortable being represented and defended by GWG. I don't think I could have done a better job, and I know I couldn't have done it by saying so much so quickly. The sheer volume of his work is incredible, which makes the quality all the more impressive.

I am not quite finished lavishing praise though, since I also think it takes patience and hope to carry on putting out quality when in conversation with Alla. She is completely and utterly at a loss to even understand the basics of what you are discussing, let alone the implications of your evidence. She is not able to follow you from one point to the next, which makes it impossible for her to grasp the full extent of how wrong she is. Her attempts are quite frankly, embarrassing. I thought you might want to know, even though you were conversing with her directly, she is certainly not your audience. She isn't who your posts are going to make a difference for. The whole thing went over her head, but directly into mine. No doubt others less decided than myself may get off the fence because of your work.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 10 users Like Dark Phoenix's post
06-08-2015, 05:31 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism

...now a discussion. Problem with being a natural mathematician; seemed to miss the indoctrination stage. Without indoctrination, any pretense of religion is just that.

[Image: ZF1ZJ4M.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-08-2015, 05:33 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
...another thing; golden tablets, might as well begin yer story "it was a dark and stormy night."

[Image: ZF1ZJ4M.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like houseofcantor's post
06-08-2015, 06:55 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(06-08-2015 02:32 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  I have to say that I have tremendously enjoyed this thread. I am very impressed with both the volume and quality of posts from GWG. Well done. I often feel the need to involve myself in arguments with Mormons because I used to be one. I feel responsible to use my experience to help people get out. However, there was no need here whatsoever. I felt completely comfortable being represented and defended by GWG. I don't think I could have done a better job, and I know I couldn't have done it by saying so much so quickly. The sheer volume of his work is incredible, which makes the quality all the more impressive.

I am not quite finished lavishing praise though, since I also think it takes patience and hope to carry on putting out quality when in conversation with Alla. She is completely and utterly at a loss to even understand the basics of what you are discussing, let alone the implications of your evidence. She is not able to follow you from one point to the next, which makes it impossible for her to grasp the full extent of how wrong she is. Her attempts are quite frankly, embarrassing. I thought you might want to know, even though you were conversing with her directly, she is certainly not your audience. She isn't who your posts are going to make a difference for. The whole thing went over her head, but directly into mine. No doubt others less decided than myself may get off the fence because of your work.

Thank you, this reply means more to me than you could possibly know. Sometimes it gets frustrating debating people like Alla and COTW that are so mired in their own self-delusion they can not comprehend the massive gaping holes in the basis of their worldview. Everytime I get to the point of "why bother" I get positive re-enforcement like this and it reinvigorates me. I know, and have often said I don't do these long winded tirades because I am trying to change the mind of the one I am debating, for typically they are committed to their view, but for those who watch, for those who are perhaps on the fence and maybe something I say plants a seed of doubt, that afterwards they go independently validate, and their path to enlighten and freedom from the blind fold of faith begins......and then it is all worth it. I also believe that those who are on the fence get to see the abject hollowness of the assertions of the believer I am debating, and that does more for creating more thinking atheists then anything I could ever do.

Again, thanks..

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like goodwithoutgod's post
06-08-2015, 06:57 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(05-08-2015 10:16 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(05-08-2015 03:43 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  BoM says that the native Americans are descended from Hebraic(Semitic) origins?!



Where does Book of Mormon claim this?

..

Apparently you didn't bother to read, I will link you to the post, if one doesn't read, and apply critical thinking skills, one doesn't learn.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid825859

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-08-2015, 07:00 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(05-08-2015 09:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  Lanny D. Bell(SMART DUDE FROM THE VIDEO), "The Ancient Egyptian 'Books of Breathing,' the Mormon 'Book of Abraham,' and the Development of Egyptology in America,"
Quote:
Finally, we are prepared to deal with the questions surrounding the suggested phallus in P. JS I. Gee 1992, pp. 101-102, has already objected that there is not enough available space to reconstruct the Isis kestrel here. Let me state clearly at the outset my conviction that the questionable traces above the head of the Osiris figure are actually the remains of his right hand;

IN OTHER WORDS, Joseph Smith WAS CORRECT IN HIS UNDERSTANDING of the drawing AT THIS POINT.

If Bell changed his mind on one thing and first he said that Joseph Smith was wrong and later he said that Joseph Smith's "understanding was correct at this point" I have a reason to assume that he(Bell) can be wrong on other things.

sigh

Again, one must read, and think, in order to learn, click here:

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid825856

and more importantly, and it will take awhile to read it all and think, but within that post I provided a link with an exhaustive breakdown of the very point you are trying to posit. Take the time to read it, you won't get past the misinformation being artfully dumped upon you by your church and "fair mormon" if you don't do the research yourself. Here is that direct link:

http://cesletter.com/debunking-fairmormo...raham.html

I have to go across town now and sit on a commissioning board for a candidate who is seeking military commissioning, and will be gone most of the day. take your time, as you like to say, we arent in a rush. it will take time to systematically remove the layers of BS you have embraced. I can't help you though if you don't read.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-08-2015, 10:57 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(06-08-2015 07:00 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(05-08-2015 09:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  Lanny D. Bell(SMART DUDE FROM THE VIDEO), "The Ancient Egyptian 'Books of Breathing,' the Mormon 'Book of Abraham,' and the Development of Egyptology in America,"
Quote:
Finally, we are prepared to deal with the questions surrounding the suggested phallus in P. JS I. Gee 1992, pp. 101-102, has already objected that there is not enough available space to reconstruct the Isis kestrel here. Let me state clearly at the outset my conviction that the questionable traces above the head of the Osiris figure are actually the remains of his right hand;

IN OTHER WORDS, Joseph Smith WAS CORRECT IN HIS UNDERSTANDING of the drawing AT THIS POINT.

If Bell changed his mind on one thing and first he said that Joseph Smith was wrong and later he said that Joseph Smith's "understanding was correct at this point" I have a reason to assume that he(Bell) can be wrong on other things.

sigh

Again, one must read, and think, in order to learn, click here:

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid825856

and more importantly, and it will take awhile to read it all and think, but within that post I provided a link with an exhaustive breakdown of the very point you are trying to posit. Take the time to read it, you won't get past the misinformation being artfully dumped upon you by your church and "fair mormon" if you don't do the research yourself. Here is that direct link:

http://cesletter.com/debunking-fairmormo...raham.html

I have to go across town now and sit on a commissioning board for a candidate who is seeking military commissioning, and will be gone most of the day. take your time, as you like to say, we arent in a rush. it will take time to systematically remove the layers of BS you have embraced. I can't help you though if you don't read.

I wonder how much of Alla's retinance to read comes from 1) laziness or 2) fear of having her faith shaken?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Full Circle's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: