Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
08-08-2015, 06:58 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(08-08-2015 06:45 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-08-2015 04:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  It doesn't matter. No ancestors of Amerinds came from anyone in the ANE, Hebrew or not.
You don't know what you don't know and I don't know what I don't know.

I know what the DNA evidence says. You do not.

Quote:
(08-08-2015 04:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  Note also that the Hebrews were not genetically distinct from their neighbors.
Lehi's descendants could be from Asia who traveled and settled in the land of Jerusalem. They could become grafted branch of house of Manasseh which means house of Joseph which means house of Jacob which means seed of Abraham.
In Abraham ALL nations will be blessed. ALL nations will become seed unto Abraham(his descendands)

No, that is not the case. The DNA evidence contradicts that idea.

You are arguing from a pit of ignorance about the DNA evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
08-08-2015, 07:05 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(08-08-2015 06:29 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-08-2015 04:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  According to the Book of Mormon, a “lost tribe of Israel” migrated to the Americas in 600 BCE.
Yes, and I already explained to you that Lehi was one branch of the lost tribe of Manasseh. Was Lehi a grafted branch(non-Hebrew or Gentile) or was he a natural branch(Hebrew)?
please, name of the book, chapter, verses.
(08-08-2015 04:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  The introduction to the Book of Mormon tells a wild tale of the Lamanites, which apparently were “the principal ancestors of the American Indians.

Lamanites are either:
1)literal descendant of Lehi
or
2)all people who were not righteous and didn't love Nephi.

Was Lehi a literal descendant of Manaseh(Hebrew) or adopted descendant(non-Hebrew/Gentile by blood)?
please , book, chapter, verse.
(08-08-2015 04:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  So far, no support for Mormon beliefs linking American Indians to ancient Israelites is evident in the DNA data.
If Lehi was not a natural branch of house of Israel, if he was grafted branch of house of Israel, it made him non-Hebrew Israelite.
It made all his sons non-Hebrew Israelites.
(08-08-2015 04:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Native American researcher Michael Crawford, a biological anthropologist from the University of Kansas, “I don’t think there is one iota of evidence to suggest a lost tribe of Israel made it all the way to the New World.
May be he has to look for it a little bit harder. May be somewhere were no man's foot was walking.
(08-08-2015 04:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Counter arguments from Mormon apologists try to assert that the DNA of Lehi and his followers would have been obscured over time by the more dominant genetic force of the Native Americans with whom they intermixed upon arrival and North America. This argument doesn’t pass scrutiny however. That is because this assertion contradicts the Book of Mormon.
I don't care about this argument. LDS people are just humans. They may have wrong opinions.
Book of Mormon is smarter than them and smarter than her critics.
(08-08-2015 04:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Another counter argument from Mormon apologists asserts that we don’t know what Lehi, Sariah, Zoram, Ishmael, Ishmael’s wife, or Mulek’s genes look like. Sure, we don’t know what DNA lineage these Book of Mormon people had, but we do know they were Israelites. blah-blah-blah
Again, I don't listen to everything what Mormon say.
But I listen and I know what BoM says.
(08-08-2015 04:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Yet another counter argument from Mormon apologists
I don't care. BoM is smarter than them and their personal opinions.
(08-08-2015 04:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  THINK Alla, think, doesn't matter the language you choose to read it, the BS is see through.
Language is very simple. There are natural branches (Hebrew Israelites) and grafted branches(non-Hebrew Israelites).
Both of them are CHILDREN or SEED OF JACOB and CHILDREN or SEED of Abraham.

Was Lehi natural branch of house of Jacob or grafted?
What does the BoM say? tell me because I have no idea.

My Norrg child....so your position is people can be wrong, including members and hierarchy of the LDS church, but that doesn't matter, because the BOM is pure...who do you think wrote the BOM? It wasn't your mythical god, it was man.....a criminal, scam artist of a man...joseph smith. No, your play of words over whether or not they were "actual" hebrews or "grafted" hebrews is irrelevant, wrong, but irrelevant...all people in the surrounding area shared the same type of euro DNA.....come on Alla, go read my DNA post....take off the bike helmet with the little flag on top and THINK.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like goodwithoutgod's post
08-08-2015, 07:20 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(08-08-2015 07:05 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  My Norrg child....so your position is people can be wrong,
Actually it is the truth. People can be wrong
(08-08-2015 04:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  including members and hierarchy of the LDS church,
Every LDS should know this. Many of them do know this. Ask your father.
(08-08-2015 07:05 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  but that doesn't matter, because the BOM is pure...who do you think wrote the BOM?
It doesn't matter for a different reason. Personal opinions of LDS leaders(right or wrong) are NOT the Doctrine of Jesus Christ.
BoM is not pure and doesn't claim to be pure. Ask your father.
J Smith translated BoM. Like all of us(LDS) he had to learn from it and to try to understand it.
(08-08-2015 07:05 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  It wasn't your mythical god, it was man.....a criminal, scam artist of a man...joseph smith. No, your play of words over whether or not they were "actual" hebrews or "grafted" hebrews is irrelevant, wrong, but irrelevant...all people in the surrounding area shared the same type of euro DNA.....come on Alla, go read my DNA post....take off the bike helmet with the little flag on top and THINK.
God brings righteous people from different corners of the Earth to promised land - America. God brought small righteous family from Asia to Jerusalem(Lehi's family, for example) and adopted them to tribe of Manasseh. They became descendant or seed unto Manasseh. Do you know what kind of mission tribe of Manasseh has? Or tribe of Ephraim? If you do not know ask you father. He will tell you.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-08-2015, 07:22 PM (This post was last modified: 09-08-2015 03:32 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
A true story.

I was sitting on my balcony looking at the ocean and behold… an angel appeared to me.

“I am Moron” he said,

“and I want you to start a new religion, for take heed and repent, God is not pleased with the way things are going down there.”

Somehow I managed to ask

“Oh…okay…but this has been done before…what’s in it for me?”

“I promise you 2 brand new motorbikes … a ducati multistrada, the new 2016 version, not a dealer runout of the old model, a red one, and a brand new Suzuki GSX s1000 S, a blue one, with heated grips. There will be a scantily clad model sitting on each bike. I’m also throwing in a dozen bottles of Laphroaig Islay Single malt scotch whisky.”

I was afraid, and almost dumbtruck, but managed to whisper

“You’re a fucking mind reader…I’m in!”

For I knew in my heart that what Moron said was good and true.

“What do I have to do?”

“God is not happy with the way things are. People are spending too much time on the internet, and are looking at unholy things. They are watching too much sport, and buying things online. He doesn’t fucking like this. I want them thinking about God. You are to start a new church to be known as the latest Church of latter Day Saints or LCLDS. You must start an on line shop. Anyone who buys stuff elsewhere is a heretic. God wants his cut.”

The words flowed out like honey from Moron’s lips, and verily I knew I was plugged in to the mind of God. He went on…

“Oh, and you’ll need to rewrite the bible. I want lots of dragons and sex this time”

“how will I sell this bible?” I asked

“I will send it down as a word document on a golden macbook air, and you are to show it to your cat and the old lady next door. They will be your witnesses, as you don’t get to keep the macbook.”

“are you sure people will buy into this?” I dared to ask.

“ it’s been done before, he replied…for truly, anything goes when it comes to gullible crowds and religion…just keep a straight face and sound confident. Remember the bikes, the booze, and the girls. God rewards those who are faithful.”

And then the angel departed, and I marvelled at what had taken place.

Can you believe it? I’m a prophet! This is the start of something really big…I just know it. Hope I don't get killed.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like Mark Fulton's post
08-08-2015, 07:30 PM (This post was last modified: 08-08-2015 07:36 PM by Alla.)
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(08-08-2015 06:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  I know what the DNA evidence says. You do not.
Lehi's parents could be from Asia.

P.S. How does DNA show that a family or two families could not travel from Asia to Jerusalem? And later their children(Lehi and Sariah) could not travel to America?

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-08-2015, 07:33 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(08-08-2015 07:22 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  A true story.
I was sitting on my balcony looking at the ocean and behold… an angel appeared
.......
Can you believe it? I’m a prophet! This is the start of something really big…I just know it.
Let me ask God. If He tells me that it is true I will believe you. Smile

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-08-2015, 07:38 PM (This post was last modified: 08-08-2015 07:41 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(08-08-2015 07:20 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-08-2015 07:05 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  My Norrg child....so your position is people can be wrong,
Actually it is the truth. People can be wrong
(08-08-2015 04:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  including members and hierarchy of the LDS church,
Every LDS should know this. Many of them do know this. Ask your father.
(08-08-2015 07:05 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  but that doesn't matter, because the BOM is pure...who do you think wrote the BOM?
It doesn't matter for a different reason. Personal opinions of LDS leaders(right or wrong) are NOT the Doctrine of Jesus Christ.
BoM is not pure and doesn't claim to be pure. Ask your father.
J Smith translated BoM. Like all of us(LDS) he had to learn from it and to try to understand it.
(08-08-2015 07:05 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  It wasn't your mythical god, it was man.....a criminal, scam artist of a man...joseph smith. No, your play of words over whether or not they were "actual" hebrews or "grafted" hebrews is irrelevant, wrong, but irrelevant...all people in the surrounding area shared the same type of euro DNA.....come on Alla, go read my DNA post....take off the bike helmet with the little flag on top and THINK.
God brings righteous people from different corners of the Earth to promised land - America. God brought small righteous family from Asia to Jerusalem(Lehi's family, for example) and adopted them to tribe of Manasseh. They became descendant or seed unto Manasseh. Do you know what kind of mission tribe of Manasseh has? Or tribe of Ephraim? If you do not know ask you father. He will tell you.

You are correct, people can be wrong, especially when they view the real world through god glasses, or through the blindfold of faith. Thankfully we have science and empirical evidence to review to make an informed and educated opinion...well some of us can...

I know your BS doctrine backwards and forwards, here lets chant the dogma together...

The veracity and value of the book of Abraham cannot be settled by scholarly debate concerning the book’s translation and historicity. The book’s status as scripture lies in the eternal truths it teaches and the powerful spirit it conveys. The book of Abraham imparts profound truths about the nature of God, His relationship to us as His children, and the purpose of this mortal life. The truth of the book of Abraham is ultimately found through careful study of its teachings, sincere prayer, and the confirmation of the Spirit...

Rolleyes

That's right, don't worry your pretty little head about things like evidence, fact, archaeological and genetic history, Don't clutter your mind with the consequential, you just continue to chant the above over and over until you believe it no matter what...oh wait, no more brain washing needed, you are fully indoctrinated...congrats. Thumbsup

For everyone else, my fellow members, and those that quietly lurk in the background as guests....do you see how faith can absolutely blind a person? Rob them of the ability to apply logic and reason to the real world around them? I hope this has been as enlightening for you, as it has been for me. The delusion is strong in this one...truly.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like goodwithoutgod's post
08-08-2015, 07:40 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(08-08-2015 07:30 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-08-2015 06:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  I know what the DNA evidence says. You do not.
Lehi's parents could be from Asia.

P.S. How does DNA show that a family or two families could not travel from Asia to Jerusalem? And later their children(Lehi and Sariah) could not travel to America?

The time frames of the actual and supposed migrations are different; the East Asian population genetics had shifted.

Unless you want to make up a story that has East Asians travelling to the Middle East in 15,000 BCE and remaining genetically isolated until 600 BCE when they depart for America. Dodgy

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
08-08-2015, 07:43 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(08-08-2015 07:33 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-08-2015 07:22 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  A true story.
I was sitting on my balcony looking at the ocean and behold… an angel appeared
.......
Can you believe it? I’m a prophet! This is the start of something really big…I just know it.
Let me ask God. If He tells me that it is true I will believe you. Smile

Yes....yes...ask the voices in your head...ask them for guidance......

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes goodwithoutgod's post
08-08-2015, 07:43 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(08-08-2015 07:33 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-08-2015 07:22 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  A true story.
I was sitting on my balcony looking at the ocean and behold… an angel appeared
.......
Can you believe it? I’m a prophet! This is the start of something really big…I just know it.
Let me ask God. If He tells me that it is true I will believe you. Smile

Which ear does he speak in? 'Cause I'm getting conflicting advice from each.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: