Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
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14-09-2015, 07:08 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
GOODWITHOUTGOD:
Salvation
2 Nephi 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, AFTER ALL WE CAN DO
Salvation by works, not by Grace; disagrees with Christian belief

ALLA:
"AFTER ALL WE CAN DO" is NOT enough that is why we need grace of God.
We are saved by grace of God because no matter what we do or how well we do is NOT enough. But if we do not do ALL WE CAN we have no faith. Faith without work is dead.

English is my second language.
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14-09-2015, 07:13 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
GOODWITHOUTGOD:
Cimeter (Scimitar)
Mosiah9:16 And it came to pass that I did arm them with bows, and with arrows, with swords, and with cimeters, and with clubs, and with slings, and with all manner of weapons which we could invent, and I and my people did go forth against the Lamanites to battle. (See also Enos 1:20; Mosiah 10:8; Alma 2:12; 27:29; 43:18,20,37; 44:8; 60:2; Helaman 1:14)
Scimitars (Curved Swords) didn't exist until the 500's. 200-187 B.C.

ALLA:
http://blog.fairmormon.org/2013/08/10/an...owlers-19/

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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14-09-2015, 07:27 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
Traditional native American beliefs align quite well with the real teachings of Christ and Buddhism. Aaaand go!
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15-09-2015, 07:45 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(14-09-2015 07:27 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Traditional native American beliefs align quite well with the real teachings of Christ and Buddhism. Aaaand go!

Which native Americans traditional beliefs?

Which real teachings of Christ?

Which form of Buddhism?

Up to a certain point everything align quite well with everything else you know.
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15-09-2015, 08:20 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(14-09-2015 07:27 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Aaaand go!

Please do.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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15-09-2015, 09:00 AM (This post was last modified: 15-09-2015 11:07 AM by epronovost.)
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(14-09-2015 07:13 PM)Alla Wrote:  GOODWITHOUTGOD:
Cimeter (Scimitar)
Mosiah9:16 And it came to pass that I did arm them with bows, and with arrows, with swords, and with cimeters, and with clubs, and with slings, and with all manner of weapons which we could invent, and I and my people did go forth against the Lamanites to battle. (See also Enos 1:20; Mosiah 10:8; Alma 2:12; 27:29; 43:18,20,37; 44:8; 60:2; Helaman 1:14)
Scimitars (Curved Swords) didn't exist until the 500's. 200-187 B.C.

ALLA:
http://blog.fairmormon.org/2013/08/10/an...owlers-19/

A scimitar isn't just a curved sword. This name refer to weapon of Turkish and Indian design. These weapons were forged using advanced steel alloys tempered at various temperature to give the weapon curves and light weight. Scimitar is also a bad translation from the shamshir which describe a light sabre while the talwar described a larger two handed sabre of similar design and construction method. While there is various ancient design of curved swords, like the kopesh for example, that were used by Philistines or Hebrew these were not scimitars. Equivocating scimitar to curve swords would be like equivocating katana, the famous samurai swords, to curved sword. Both are indeed curved swords, but all curved swords aren't scimitars or katana. In resume, the usage of the word scimitar is an anachronism since it wasn't in usage before the Turks migrated from Central Asia to the Middle East. You could argue that it was a mistranslation of the original writings which would have named another type of curved sword that was translated to scimitars because of the cultural impact of the Turks, but since Joseph Smith translations were of magical origins, that would put a dent in the mormons teachings.
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15-09-2015, 09:34 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
epronovost,
Peace, waste not, the four winds, the circle of life, greed and selfishness being of the manipulator, or evil, or Satan or not of rightious man.
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15-09-2015, 10:26 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(15-09-2015 09:34 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  epronovost,
Peace, waste not, the four winds, the circle of life, greed and selfishness being of the manipulator, or evil, or Satan or not of rightious man.

Peace: well no one is really against the idea of peace.

Waste not: well no one is really against that idea either.

The four winds: what the hell is that supposed to mean?

the circle of life: that's a fact; things are born and die; nothing special here.

greed and selfishness being evil: well depending on how you define selfishness, pretty much no one would think that's false.

Congratulation, you have demonstrated that every single phisolophical schools and theology have a few points in common. Which is something we all knew for centuries. Yay?
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15-09-2015, 10:53 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(15-09-2015 10:26 AM)epronovost Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 09:34 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  epronovost,
Peace, waste not, the four winds, the circle of life, greed and selfishness being of the manipulator, or evil, or Satan or not of rightious man.

Peace: well no one is really against the idea of peace.

Waste not: well no one is really against that idea either.

The four winds: what the hell is that supposed to mean?

the circle of life: that's a fact; things are born and die; nothing special here.

greed and selfishness being evil: well depending on how you define selfishness, pretty much no one would think that's false.

Congratulation, you have demonstrated that every single phisolophical schools and theology have a few points in common. Which is something we all knew for centuries. Yay?
Four winds could be interpreted many ways. It can be seen in Buddhism and Native American culture and as a representation of the cross. In simple terms it is positive and negative in the lack of action or action.
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15-09-2015, 11:07 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(15-09-2015 10:26 AM)epronovost Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 09:34 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  epronovost,
Peace, waste not, the four winds, the circle of life, greed and selfishness being of the manipulator, or evil, or Satan or not of rightious man.

Peace: well no one is really against the idea of peace.

Waste not: well no one is really against that idea either.

The four winds: what the hell is that supposed to mean?

the circle of life: that's a fact; things are born and die; nothing special here.

greed and selfishness being evil: well depending on how you define selfishness, pretty much no one would think that's false.

Congratulation, you have demonstrated that every single phisolophical schools and theology have a few points in common. Which is something we all knew for centuries. Yay?

To add on to Epronovost's point...

and the commonalities exist why pops? because as man grew into tribes and wandered the earth, and came across one another again later, one of the commodities traded was stories....people love to tell stories dont they...and what is the natural and very common element of good story telling? embellishment...the storytellers concocting bigger and bigger and more unreal stories...dragons....flying corpses and jesus oh my....so each generational retelling and exchanging of stories would fall along common themes wouldn't they? The best inventive, stories would be retold, and shared and embellished. Every ancient society had some version of a "big flood".....yes...it rains, earth gives, storms occur, and *gasp* floods happen. With each retelling the story gets bigger...the whole village was washed away...the whole mountain was washed away...the whole world was drowned except for your great great grandfather and his wife, for whom the magic god Norrg spared their lives, as they were good people, and gave them many blessings...Rolleyes

The fact that many ancient civilizations have a flood story is not an indication of the validity of a "global flood' (because by and large there is no evidence of a global flood occurring at the same time, worldwide, an Extinction Life Level Event), but there is evidence of regional floods at various times throughout history. Now as far as passed on stories...the mythical biblical global flood that covered the earth under 40 feet of water...was actually based on older myths, in the case of the flood, from the Epic of Gilgamesh....and that on an even older story...the Genesis flood narrative matches that in Gilgamesh so closely that "few doubt" that it derives from a Mesopotamian account. What is particularly noticeable is the way the Genesis flood story follows the Gilgamesh flood tale "point by point and in the same order", even when the story permits other alternatives. In a 2001 Torah commentary released on behalf of the Conservative Movement of Judaism, rabbinic scholar Robert Wexler stated: "The most likely assumption we can make is that both Genesis and Gilgamesh drew their material from a common tradition about the flood that existed in Mesopotamia. These stories then diverged in the retelling."

Aren't stories fun?

Wow, did i go off track? lol

My point was all of the biblical BS can be traced back to older "stories"...parables, myths, and various other oral concoctions.

Here to help pops. Good luck with your studies.....

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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