Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
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15-09-2015, 04:22 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(15-09-2015 04:03 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 03:14 PM)Alla Wrote:  GOODWITHOUTGOD:

Silk
Alma 4:6 And it came to pass in the eighth year of the reign of the judges, that the people of the church began to wax proud, because of their exceeding riches, and their fine SILKS, and their fine-twined linen, and because of their many flocks and herds, and their gold and their silver, and all manner of precious things, which they had obtained by their industry; and in all these things were they lifted up in the pride of their eyes, for they began to wear very costly apparel.

Jews didn't have silk then. The Jews didn't have silk at that time 86-83 B.C.

ALLA
http://www.evidencesofmormon.org/evidenc...ormon.aspx

Alla, I've studied textiles my entire life, I work with textiles all day long. I have a degree in textiles. Yes, silk was in existence during this time but the Ancient Greeks and Romans enacted Sumptuary Laws which excluded wearing silk by anyone other than the very highest ranking individuals and anyone caught wearing certain fabrics, especially silk, were fined, jailed or worse. The Jews were not allowed to wear silk. They wore linen and wool.

BoM is not an ancient text, it is 19th-century translation of an ancient text.
So, Joseph Smith translated this way - he used word "silk", probably the best word he could come up for the fabric that was mentioned in ancient text he was translating and it was the best word for our understanding.
Could he find a better word? probably, but if he could and didn't use a better word, who cares? who cares if translator didn't use the exact word for the fabric? It doesn't lead anybody astray from the Gospel.
Scriptures are not perfect books. God reveals things to the prophets and then later they tell, write or translate about those things to the best of their abilities.

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15-09-2015, 04:25 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(15-09-2015 02:51 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  it has been shown to me directly that there is a God.

How nice for you. Do you have any evidence to support that? Without evidence there is no way for anybody to determine whether your interpretation of what you think happened is accurate or just a delusion. In fact, without evidence there is no way for you to make that distinction. You just go on believing it but don't be surprised that you get called out on it because it appears to be complete and utter bullshit.

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15-09-2015, 04:31 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(15-09-2015 04:25 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 02:51 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  it has been shown to me directly that there is a God.

How nice for you. Do you have any evidence to support that? Without evidence there is no way for anybody to determine whether your interpretation of what you think happened is accurate or just a delusion. In fact, without evidence there is no way for you to make that distinction. You just go on believing it but don't be surprised that you get called out on it because it appears to be complete and utter bullshit.
The only physical evidence that I have is a small invoice book that I used to keep with me over 5 years ago. Whenever I got out of the vehicle and got where I was trying to get to I attempted to write down everything that happened. The only thing I managed to write weird things that did not pertain to my experience but things that were shown to me as a result of that experience. These things were completely outside of my knowledge prior to my being saved. But I do have this small book I have it with me now actually I keep it with me on my journey. I'm sure that will not constitute evidence for most of you but it is definitely a reference for me as I had no clue of these things beforehand.
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15-09-2015, 04:31 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(15-09-2015 04:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 04:03 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Alla, I've studied textiles my entire life, I work with textiles all day long. I have a degree in textiles. Yes, silk was in existence during this time but the Ancient Greeks and Romans enacted Sumptuary Laws which excluded wearing silk by anyone other than the very highest ranking individuals and anyone caught wearing certain fabrics, especially silk, were fined, jailed or worse. The Jews were not allowed to wear silk. They wore linen and wool.

BoM is not an ancient text, it is 19th-century translation of an ancient text.
So, Joseph Smith translated this way - he used word "silk", probably the best word he could come up for the fabric that was mentioned in ancient text he was translating and it was the best word for our understanding.
Could he find a better word? probably, but if he could and didn't use a better word, who cares? who cares if translator didn't use the exact word for the fabric? It doesn't lead anybody astray from the Gospel.
Scriptures are not perfect books. God reveals things to the prophets and then later they tell, write or translate about those things to the best of their abilities.

Psssst Alla you forgot the part where it was "translated" by a criminal who really in fact made all the shit up...

Which is why they don't have the original text today.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-09-2015, 04:36 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(15-09-2015 04:31 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 04:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  BoM is not an ancient text, it is 19th-century translation of an ancient text.
So, Joseph Smith translated this way - he used word "silk", probably the best word he could come up for the fabric that was mentioned in ancient text he was translating and it was the best word for our understanding.
Could he find a better word? probably, but if he could and didn't use a better word, who cares? who cares if translator didn't use the exact word for the fabric? It doesn't lead anybody astray from the Gospel.
Scriptures are not perfect books. God reveals things to the prophets and then later they tell, write or translate about those things to the best of their abilities.

Psssst Alla you forgot the part where it was "translated" by a criminal who really in fact made all the shit up...

Which is why they don't have the original text today.

And the part where words take on a completely different meaning in the bom, requiring "interpretation" and quasi "translations" so they can be mashed into a new meaning to satisfy your position.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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15-09-2015, 04:38 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(15-09-2015 04:31 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The only physical evidence that I have is a small invoice book that I used to keep with me over 5 years ago. Whenever I got out of the vehicle and got where I was trying to get to I attempted to write down everything that happened. The only thing I managed to write weird things that did not pertain to my experience but things that were shown to me as a result of that experience. These things were completely outside of my knowledge prior to my being saved. But I do have this small book I have it with me now actually I keep it with me on my journey. I'm sure that will not constitute evidence for most of you but it is definitely a reference for me as I had no clue of these things beforehand.

Care to provide examples?

You would have to be able to show that these were things you could not have known, or heard, or have seen, or even imagined to even begin to be considered possible evidence of something. Even then, it wouldn't be evidence of a god but only that something unusual happened. The fact that you convinced yourself of some sort of supernatural connection is as irrelevant as it is unwarranted.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... you really sound like you are seriously deluded and need professional help. You should get some.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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15-09-2015, 04:42 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(15-09-2015 04:38 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(15-09-2015 04:31 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The only physical evidence that I have is a small invoice book that I used to keep with me over 5 years ago. Whenever I got out of the vehicle and got where I was trying to get to I attempted to write down everything that happened. The only thing I managed to write weird things that did not pertain to my experience but things that were shown to me as a result of that experience. These things were completely outside of my knowledge prior to my being saved. But I do have this small book I have it with me now actually I keep it with me on my journey. I'm sure that will not constitute evidence for most of you but it is definitely a reference for me as I had no clue of these things beforehand.

Care to provide examples?

You would have to be able to show that these were things you could not have known, or heard, or have seen, or even imagined to even begin to be considered possible evidence of something. Even then, it wouldn't be evidence of a god but only that something unusual happened. The fact that you convinced yourself of some sort of supernatural connection is as irrelevant as it is unwarranted.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... you really sound like you are seriously deluded and need professional help. You should get some.
What would be the point of me showing any of this to you if you're just going to discredit it beforehand? I can sit here and explain the entire experience to you if you like but it seems that you would just discredit it as well before hand and waste both your time and mine. I can actually take pictures of the booklet that I'm talking about and post it here if you like I can sit here and explain the entire experience to you if you like but it seems that you would just discredit it as well beforehand and waste both my time and yours.
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15-09-2015, 04:44 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
PS much like you discredit anything that does not fall into your closed view.
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15-09-2015, 05:04 PM (This post was last modified: 15-09-2015 05:38 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(15-09-2015 07:45 AM)epronovost Wrote:  
(14-09-2015 07:27 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Traditional native American beliefs align quite well with the real teachings of Christ and Buddhism. Aaaand go!

Which native Americans traditional beliefs?

Which real teachings of Christ?

Which form of Buddhism?

Up to a certain point everything align quite well with everything else you know.

I think the point Pops is trying to make, not very eloquently or clearly, is there is one principle common to virtually every religion. The Golden Rule in one form or another forms the basis of just about every religion. All the rest is made-up bullshit.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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15-09-2015, 05:18 PM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
Sorry Alla, no round two for you. I eviscerated your made up religion in great detail in this thread. all in agreeance say "Aye." Go back to the beginning of the thread, read...absorb, think...evolve. I understand it is hard to let go of delusion, it truly is. To abandon something that has been spoonfed to you by family, friends, and authority figures for a long period of time robs the brain of the ability to comprehend the real world...we call it "god goggles"..or "god glasses." You are viewing the world through faith, and there is a HUGE reason it is referred to as blind faith. Your reasoning skills are.....severely challenged at best as indicated by the long and indepth thrashing I gave you and your made up religion. Sticking your fingers in your ears while stamping your feet and repeating yourself doesnt suddenly make your bleating right, or true. I think you are most likely a nice, but severely delusional young lady who has been misinformed, led astray, and in great effort to drown out what must be your inner logic's raspy screaming of the absurdity of your worldview, you continue to march on while chanting your mantra and dogma to reassure yourself it is true.....

Say it with me Alla...Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real, Santa is real....eventually you will believe it, or convince yourself it just MUST be true.....superior counter evidence be damned.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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