Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
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04-08-2015, 10:55 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(04-08-2015 10:47 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(04-08-2015 10:36 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Convictions and trails of investigations with evidence convincing the cases against him of illegal financial workings & fraud is not enough evidence of lying?
It could be evidence
1) if I am convinced that witnesses didn't lie. That witness were 100% honest.
If I am convinced that witness NEVER lie when they swear on the Bible.
2)If I am convinced that we never had a case when innocent person was sentenced to death or to some/many years in prison.
back to you

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

My Norrg, child you are special. So all of those court cases, arrests etc across multiple states was some type of massive conspiracy and religious persecution I assume? His fleeing the state for bank fraud with his little gold digging scheme is the actions of a prophet of god...truly? You can say that with a straight face? Facepalm

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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04-08-2015, 10:57 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(04-08-2015 10:52 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Doctrine: is a codification of beliefs or a body of teachings or instructions, taught principles or positions, as the essence of teachings in a given branch of knowledge or belief system.
Key word there is belief system, which has no bearing on fact, reality, or truth. You do understand this right? I can purport that I believe Norrg, the creator of all living things who resides inside hollow Uranus is the Supreme Being. This is my belief system, based upon the teachings of the church of Norrg. Since the teachings of Norrg can be proven to be bullshit, with no basis in reality, debunked by archaeological, astrophysics, fossil record, and historical analysis then my belief system based on my religion's doctrinal teachings is not the litmus test for truth.

Get it?
Offtopic
There is no contradiction in those three versions. I answered to you why there is no contradiction if in one account I say "Angels", in another account I say "God", and in another account I say "Gods"
I think I will move on.
My next posting will be about the video.

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04-08-2015, 10:59 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(04-08-2015 10:57 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(04-08-2015 10:52 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Doctrine: is a codification of beliefs or a body of teachings or instructions, taught principles or positions, as the essence of teachings in a given branch of knowledge or belief system.
Key word there is belief system, which has no bearing on fact, reality, or truth. You do understand this right? I can purport that I believe Norrg, the creator of all living things who resides inside hollow Uranus is the Supreme Being. This is my belief system, based upon the teachings of the church of Norrg. Since the teachings of Norrg can be proven to be bullshit, with no basis in reality, debunked by archaeological, astrophysics, fossil record, and historical analysis then my belief system based on my religion's doctrinal teachings is not the litmus test for truth.

Get it?
Offtopic
There is no contradiction in those three versions. I answered to you why there is no contradiction if in one account I say "Angels", in another account I say "God", and in another account I say "Gods"
I think I will move on.
My next posting will be about the video.

No....no there is a huge difference between angels, jesus and god. Lets just agree that you are confused and move on. My analogy clearly went over your head.

SO lets see where are we now in your twisting about....next we have:

Discuss video
Discuss the DNA issue
Discuss the Book of Abraham fraud (in video as well)
Discuss the plagiarism of the KJV to fabricate the KJV
Discuss the long and wide criminal record of this false prophet Joseph Smith, because surely a mythical god would have chosen a better example of humanity to teach the masses....and represent god

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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04-08-2015, 11:07 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(04-08-2015 10:30 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(04-08-2015 10:23 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So, what would it take to actually convince you he was just a liar ?
Proof that he lied.
(04-08-2015 10:23 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  His wife thought he was a liar.
OK, let's assume it is true statement/claim. How can I know this?
(04-08-2015 10:23 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  She understood that he just wanted to have sex with other women, including her best friends.
OK, let's assume it is true. How do I know that she understood this?

There are mountains of proof that he lied about all kinds of things. First, he lied about translating the Egyptian hierglyphs. We know now, they said nothing even remotely what he represented them to have said. He was a complete fraud.

http://mormoncurtain.com/topic_emmasmith.html
http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/Joseph-Smi...n-sources.
http://www.exmormon.org/pattern/josemma.htm

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04-08-2015, 11:08 AM (This post was last modified: 04-08-2015 11:15 AM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(04-08-2015 10:47 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(04-08-2015 10:36 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Convictions and trails of investigations with evidence convincing the cases against him of illegal financial workings & fraud is not enough evidence of lying?
It could be evidence
1) if I am convinced that witnesses didn't lie. That witness were 100% honest.
If I am convinced that witness NEVER lie when they swear on the Bible.
2)If I am convinced that we never had a case when innocent person was sentenced to death or to some/many years in prison.
back to you

There is cases and cases of false lies under oath. It itself is a crime called Perjury. Many times it is proven they lied under oath via video evidence of the event at hand.

There are many other publicly known perjury cases like Athletes cases with steroid cases. Lance Armstrong has to pay 10 Million dollars due to his perjury case.

Here is others, http://mentalfloss.com/article/25595/4-f...ed-perjury

It would be hard to find, there may be moments on records of a person under oath admitting they previously lied under oath. That person would half to be lying one of those times. The evidence of it would be hard to proof because of finding court records but it's certainly a possibility in the court system to have happened plenty.

Why are you convinced of your position? Will you still hold to that position?

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04-08-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
I almost feel bad Unsure It is like kicking a wounded three legged dog.....sure it is easy, but how many times should you kick the dog?

This poor ineducable and delusional child has no idea what she crawled into when she kicked off this conversation, oh well, perhaps others will gain something worthwhile from reading this "discussion". Rolleyes

Can you imagine the entertainment value of watching Alla and COTW enter a debate over theological truthfullness? Big Grin It would be an epic circle jerk.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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04-08-2015, 11:22 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
1)In the video William West said this:
"Is it possible that a record written by Abraham containing the most important revelations that God ever gave to man...."
I will stop here. What made him think that this is the most important revelations that God ever gave to man?
Who even ever claimed this (besides him of course)?

2)In this video French dude with the beard says:
There is something wrong with Joseph Smith pictures. He studied three of them.
Then he compares them to some pictures that show common Egyptian burials. He says that they are very similar. Then he says that Smith completely misidentified the characters and the scene. French dude says that it is Egyptian God Anubus assisting resurrection of dead Egyptian.

3)It is also said in this video that we need to see the original pictures to make right conclusion.

4) It is also said in "Critical link" segment that papuri was found and that Egyptologist believe that this is the one that JS had.

5) There is another dude Ritner who makes very strong points:

a)about heads. Because we know how burial scenes look like(he brought an example with Madonna and Child) we know what kind of heads should be there.
b) now even more important or KEY point: he KNOWS that those figures UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTENCES WOULD NOT HOLD THE KNIFE.
He says even more:
KNIFE IS CRITICAL to the text, it goes to the CORE of the story(JS's story)
IF YOU TAKE THE KNIFE AWAY YOU TAKE THE STORY AWAY.
And clearly the knife had no reason to be there.

Before I ask my questions I want to know:
any objections to what I just wrote?
Is my understanding of those segments of the video correct?
back to you.Smile

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04-08-2015, 11:28 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(04-08-2015 11:07 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There are mountains of proof that he lied about all kinds of things. First, he lied about translating the Egyptian hierglyphs. We know now, they said nothing even remotely what he represented them to have said. He was a complete fraud.
OK, I assume it is the truth. So, please tell me(ignorant one) how do we(YOU) know this?
(04-08-2015 11:07 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  http://mormoncurtain.com/topic_emmasmith.html
http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/Joseph-Smi...n-sources.
http://www.exmormon.org/pattern/josemma.htm
Oh, I will check these websites, may be the answer is here.
P.S. No, not here. So, how do we know that he lied about hieroglyphs?

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04-08-2015, 11:39 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(04-08-2015 08:28 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Speaking of fraud.....

In 1835 a traveling curiosity peddler of Egyptian mummies arrived in the small town of Kirtland, Ohio. He caught the attention of Joseph Smith (1805-44), the controversial founder of the Mormon religion. Smith secured a large sum of money from his followers ($2,400, or $60,000 in today’s dollars) to purchase four Egyptian mummies with scrolls of papyri. Smith announced that he could do what no one else could do: translate the ancient hieroglyphics. Smith asserted that the papyri contained the writings of the biblical prophets Abraham and Joseph. He titled his translation of the papyri the “Book of Abraham.” Smith’s translation contained several images from the papyri and in 1851 was published as part of the Mormon scripture called “The Pearl of Great Price.”

The surviving papyri have been translated into English in their entirety. In analyzing and translating the ancient texts, Robert K. Ritner, foremost American scholar of Egyptology, has determined that they were prepared for deceased men and women in Thebes during the Greco-Roman period. They have nothing to do with Abraham, Joseph, or a planet called Kolob, as Smith had claimed.

“Except for those willfully blind,” writes Professor Ritner of the University of Chicago’s Oriental Institute, “the case is closed.” In his new book, The Joseph Smith Egyptian Papyri: A Complete Edition, he also accuses two scholars of Egyptology at Mormon-owned Brigham Young University of borrowing and distorting his own writings in trying to defend Smith’s interpretations as authentically translated Egyptian. Smith’s translation narrative tells of a young Abraham who is about to become a human sacrifice at the request of his father. It also tells of a human pre-mortal existence and teaches that the Egyptian pharaohs were cursed by God (leading to the Mormon priesthood restrictions on African Americans). It also established the Mormon theology for multiple gods.

For members of the Mormon religion, Smith’s “translation” remains a product of their faith. Laugh out load

ah you gotta love mythology....and those gullible enough to embrace it...like Alla

This moronic religion is not just belief without evidence, it is belief in spite of contradictory evidence;
evidence that conclusively shows that the BoM is bullshit, that Joseph Smith was a liar and charlatan.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-08-2015, 11:43 AM
RE: Discussion on the invalidity of Mormonism
(04-08-2015 11:22 AM)Alla Wrote:  1)In the video William West said this:
"Is it possible that a record written by Abraham containing the most important revelations that God ever gave to man...."
I will stop here. What made him think that this is the most important revelations that God ever gave to man?
Who even ever claimed this (besides him of course)?

2)In this video French dude with the beard says:
There is something wrong with Joseph Smith pictures. He studied three of them.
Then he compares them to some pictures that show common Egyptian burials. He says that they are very similar. Then he says that Smith completely misidentified the characters and the scene. French dude says that it is Egyptian God Anubus assisting resurrection of dead Egyptian.

3)It is also said in this video that we need to see the original pictures to make right conclusion.

4) It is also said in "Critical link" segment that papuri was found and that Egyptologist believe that this is the one that JS had.

5) There is another dude Ritner who makes very strong points:

a)about heads. Because we know how burial scenes look like(he brought an example with Madonna and Child) we know what kind of heads should be there.
b) now even more important or KEY point: he KNOWS that those figures UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTENCES WOULD NOT HOLD THE KNIFE.
He says even more:
KNIFE IS CRITICAL to the text, it goes to the CORE of the story(JS's story)
IF YOU TAKE THE KNIFE AWAY YOU TAKE THE STORY AWAY.
And clearly the knife had no reason to be there.

Before I ask my questions I want to know:
any objections to what I just wrote?
Is my understanding of those segments of the video correct?
back to you.Smile

Yup, carry on, dig your hole Smile

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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