Discussion with my Christian friend about death
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30-10-2014, 01:20 PM
RE: Discussion with my Christian friend about death
Many like to claim they do not fear death but I don't believe them. Sure we can talk about the billions of years before we existed or we can rationalize our eventual non existence like saying "I won't know about it" but the truth is if you didn't fear death you'd be dead already. When your life is in danger fear will kick in. It's all in how you deal with it.
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30-10-2014, 01:36 PM
RE: Discussion with my Christian friend about death
(30-10-2014 01:20 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Many like to claim they do not fear death but I don't believe them. Sure we can talk about the billions of years before we existed or we can rationalize our eventual non existence like saying "I won't know about it" but the truth is if you didn't fear death you'd be dead already. When your life is in danger fear will kick in. It's all in how you deal with it.

Age is a big factor, and physical condition is a big factor.

Your attitude towards death changes as you age. And that is a good thing!

You can't possibly know how you will feel about death when you are 90, when your body is frail and won't obey your commands, when you know your mind is young like 70 years ago, but your brain and limbs and vocal cords etc etc etc will not do your bidding anymore and people don't treat you like a real person anymore...death will look a whole lot different to you then.

But even when young, the instinct for survival is just that - an instinct. Some of us are more endowed with it than others. Just because you can't imagine embracing death (yet), doesn't mean that everyone feels the same way.

Thousands of suicides prove you wrong.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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30-10-2014, 01:58 PM
RE: Discussion with my Christian friend about death
(30-10-2014 01:36 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(30-10-2014 01:20 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Many like to claim they do not fear death but I don't believe them. Sure we can talk about the billions of years before we existed or we can rationalize our eventual non existence like saying "I won't know about it" but the truth is if you didn't fear death you'd be dead already. When your life is in danger fear will kick in. It's all in how you deal with it.

Age is a big factor, and physical condition is a big factor.

Your attitude towards death changes as you age. And that is a good thing!

You can't possibly know how you will feel about death when you are 90, when your body is frail and won't obey your commands, when you know your mind is young like 70 years ago, but your brain and limbs and vocal cords etc etc etc will not do your bidding anymore and people don't treat you like a real person anymore...death will look a whole lot different to you then.

But even when young, the instinct for survival is just that - an instinct. Some of us are more endowed with it than others. Just because you can't imagine embracing death (yet), doesn't mean that everyone feels the same way.

Thousands of suicides prove you wrong.
Just because people are willing to die doesn't mean they don't fear death. I fear drowning but I still swim and boat knowing full well that drowning is possible.
Yes the desire to live is an instinct and so is fear. What do you think gets a persons heart racing in a bad situation other than fear?
Everyone fears death weather they'd like to admit it or not. It's just that some fear life even more.
I am not saying that people can't face death with courage.
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30-10-2014, 02:05 PM
RE: Discussion with my Christian friend about death
(30-10-2014 01:58 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  
(30-10-2014 01:36 PM)Dom Wrote:  Age is a big factor, and physical condition is a big factor.

Your attitude towards death changes as you age. And that is a good thing!

You can't possibly know how you will feel about death when you are 90, when your body is frail and won't obey your commands, when you know your mind is young like 70 years ago, but your brain and limbs and vocal cords etc etc etc will not do your bidding anymore and people don't treat you like a real person anymore...death will look a whole lot different to you then.

But even when young, the instinct for survival is just that - an instinct. Some of us are more endowed with it than others. Just because you can't imagine embracing death (yet), doesn't mean that everyone feels the same way.

Thousands of suicides prove you wrong.
Just because people are willing to die doesn't mean they don't fear death. I fear drowning but I still swim and boat knowing full well that drowning is possible.
Yes the desire to live is an instinct and so is fear. What do you think gets a persons heart racing in a bad situation other than fear?
Everyone fears death weather they'd like to admit it or not. It's just that some fear life even more.

You fear death when you are young and your body functions.

The highest point in the fear of death is when you are child rearing age.

After that, as your relatives and peers die off in increasing numbers, you will come to grips with death.

When you are old and decrepit, you will embrace it.

Just the facts of life.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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30-10-2014, 02:38 PM
RE: Discussion with my Christian friend about death
(30-10-2014 02:05 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(30-10-2014 01:58 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Just because people are willing to die doesn't mean they don't fear death. I fear drowning but I still swim and boat knowing full well that drowning is possible.
Yes the desire to live is an instinct and so is fear. What do you think gets a persons heart racing in a bad situation other than fear?
Everyone fears death weather they'd like to admit it or not. It's just that some fear life even more.

You fear death when you are young and your body functions.

The highest point in the fear of death is when you are child rearing age.

After that, as your relatives and peers die off in increasing numbers, you will come to grips with death.

When you are old and decrepit, you will embrace it.

Just the facts of life.
So it's not at all possible that some people (as I said) fear life more than death? If I am given only two possibilities both of which I fear is it not likely that I will accept the one that scares me less?
And no. When I am old and decrepit I will not embrace death. I will fight tooth and nail to stay alive because I despise the idea of missing what will happen next.
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30-10-2014, 02:55 PM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2014 02:58 PM by Drunkin Druid.)
RE: Discussion with my Christian friend about death
I'm not saying that people can't face death with courage (as I said before). What I'm saying is that fear can never be fully eliminated. People embrace what they fear all the time. That's what thrill seekers do. That's what I do when I swim which is rare I'll admit. That's what courage is.
How's it go. Courage is not the absents of fear. It's action in the presence of fear.
Sure people choose death but that doesn't mean they are not afraid. It just means that they face it with courage.
So no. Millions of suicides does not prove I'm wrong. It just proves that millions of people kill themselves.
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29-12-2014, 01:21 PM
RE: Discussion with my Christian friend about death
“I sure hope that old lady was wrong. About death not being the end of it.” - Rust Chole

In a way this is the way that I feel. In a way, I want more. There is a difference between being afraid of the dying process and dreading what lies after. I know from personal experience that the couple times I thought that I may be close to death my only real thought was, 'That was it?'. The simple fact is we have no choice either way, so we might as well just live what days we have the best we can.

I can't wrap my mind around the idea of Hell as proposed in Christianity. Especially the part about how all my "good" loved ones don't seem to care that I'm not in heaven with them. A supreme creator is not likely to make a bunch of people and then send the majority of them that guess the wrong religion to eternal doom, it does not make sense.

The closest that I could think of there being a hell is that the last millisecond you are alive stretches for all eternity and your state of mind at that instant is like the new baseline for your being. (Cue the DMT guy)

Maybe it is the ghost thing. I will be seriously bummed if I turn out to be a ghost and try as I might I cannot get a single chair to move around and scare the wits out of some stupid brat. Maybe there will be a ghost meeting. We can play poker or something and exchange stories about how we made temperature in the room three degrees colder.

I know this though. My brother is "born again" and hard at it. He wont do a thing without reporting to the good book and finding out what he is supposed to think. He actually believes that if he can "figure it out" that he will manage to not die. He doesn't want eternal bliss or anything after, just to not die so he can deliver packages forty hours a week for all eternity.
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05-01-2015, 02:07 PM
RE: Discussion with my Christian friend about death
(30-10-2014 02:38 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  And no. When I am old and decrepit I will not embrace death. I will fight tooth and nail to stay alive because I despise the idea of missing what will happen next.

I am 70, with Heart Failure and other health problems. Even so, I am in relatively great shape, so I do not consider myself to have one foot in the grave.

That said, I do not fear death, at this time, because I consider death an eternal sleep, in which you never wake up. One of the things that I do exceptionally well, is sleep. I have mastered the art of sleep. Smartass My death would allow me to do my life's passion all of the time (unfortunately, without the dreams).

When it becomes time for me to go, I will be very fearful, not because of death itself, but because I will miss what happens next. I will also no longer be able to support, help or comfort those who depend upon me, and that will be the sad part. Sad

Is there free will in Heaven? Do "souls" age in Heaven? What if you get to Heaven, for an eternity, and find it boring and tedious and torturous, especially without booze or sex? And... what if you can't get along with God?
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05-01-2015, 02:24 PM (This post was last modified: 05-01-2015 02:53 PM by Mr. Boston.)
RE: Discussion with my Christian friend about death
I remember reading a quote, may have been Hitchens I can't recall, "We dreamed up an afterlife because we can't conceive of a universe without us in it." Which is of course completely ridiculous when we think about the fact that for 99.999999999999999% of cosmic time we didn't exist.

I don't fear it, at least not actively, but as I get older who knows? I guess I regard the same as I regard anything else over which I have no control. You might say I'm resigned to it. I like to think about Braveheart, "All men die, not all men truly live." So, I suppose if I live as much as I can I really have nothing to fear. Generally I think life is a lot scarier than death.

At the ripe age of 35 I've seen a fair amount of death, had to say goodbye to many loved ones, etc. and in my time I'll go through a great deal more of it. Other than a few people cut down tragically young by cancer or car accidents most of the people in my life who've died of natural causes have done so long after becoming an emotional and physical burden to their loved ones; an obligation, a source of resentment. We're going to die, it can't be stopped. In some ways I'd probably prefer to go when I'm still enjoying life, still making a contribution, as opposed to lingering on for years and even decades after I've become burdensome and potentially financially ruinous to my family. I come from a long line of people who live into very advanced age. Alzheimer's runs through my family too. I don't want to go like my paternal grandfather did, feeling alone and afraid with no idea who the room full of strangers are who call themselves my family and have shown up to watch me die.

I'm just saying there are some fates worse than death; I'm more afraid of those.
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