Discussions with my muslim friend
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16-04-2017, 04:21 PM
Discussions with my muslim friend
My friend is a Muslim, he is different.
He follows the new age version of Islam.
He knows that I am an atheist, and pragmatic.
He is trying to reconvert me to Islam, I had three debates with him:
His premises are:
Him:We did not evolve, Aliens put us on earth and that they are experimenting with us and the alpha alien is Allah, while satan , demons and angels are also aliens.
We humans are the most preferred over other species, demons are less preffered but they are more advanced.
1st Debate:
I asked him: Do we have free will?
He replied :Yes we have.
I replied: But if god is omniscient, then we don't have free will.
He responded: A teacher gave a student the material to study and if he knows that the student didn't then he/she will fail, and god is like the teacher.
2nd Debate:
Him: Every living creature has a soul and it is based upon energy through the ATP.
He also explained how the ATP functions.
Me: If our energy/soul source is the food we eat and the soul is what built by individuality, character, conciousness, experiences, and for example we both eat the same exact thing why don't we act the same?
Him: The energy changes its form, and god gave u free will.
3rd Debate:
Him: Everything is intelligently designed.
Me: But why do we have useless organs and tissues in our bodies? Like the appendix.
Him:We have the appendix to store the bacteria responsible for breaking down sugars, and if someone has diarrhea the bacteria is stored in the appendix.
Me: Then what do think of Darwinian evolution?
Him: Darwin was only right about natural selection.
Me: Both of the concepts of intelligent design and natural selection contradict each other. If nature is about "survival of the fittest" then no need for intelligent design.
Him: Human beings did not originate from earth, we originated from another planet we are aliens to this earth, but we are adapting to it. Thats why a woman in labour is in severe pain, but other animals like baboons can give birth smoothly, and we can't control our instincts like the aliens can. The aliens want us to follow Islamic doctrine so we can progress, if God revealed himself we would be in chaos, so we are not ready for it.
He told me that his arguments are based on his research, I asked him about his sources but I forgot what they are.
I will be debating him most probably this week, his arguments still haven't persuaded, I know that it is highly probable for other creatures on other planets to exist, but I am still skeptical of his claim.
If we meet up, what should my response be?
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16-04-2017, 04:25 PM
RE: Discussions with my muslim friend
Quote:Him:We did not evolve, Aliens put us on earth and that they are experimenting with us and the alpha alien is Allah, while satan , demons and angels are also aliens.


He sounds insane.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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16-04-2017, 04:39 PM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2017 04:45 PM by Rachel.)
Discussions with my muslim friend
(16-04-2017 04:21 PM)Ibrahim95128 Wrote:  If we meet up, what should my response be?

First, challenge his premises. Without empirical evidence for god, Allah, Satan, or aliens, his arguments are non-starters. He's taking the existence of god as axiomatic, but there's no need for you to.

Your friend has no idea what the theory of evolution is. Recommend a good book on the subject. I like "Why Evolution Is True" by Jerry Coyne and "The Greatest Show On Earth" by Richard Dawkins. If you want more detail, try any book by Ernst Mayr, but the writing is denser and some of the detail is out of date.
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16-04-2017, 05:22 PM
RE: Discussions with my muslim friend
(16-04-2017 04:21 PM)Ibrahim95128 Wrote:  My friend is a Muslim, he is different.
He follows the new age version of Islam.
He knows that I am an atheist, and pragmatic.
He is trying to reconvert me to Islam, I had three debates with him...

In all honesty mate, it sounds to me as though your friend has gone off the deep end—to put it politely.

You're only gonna be wasting even more of your time debating this bloke, as his reasoning abilities and logic—or lack of in this case—will make it extremely unlikely that he'll even for a moment consider your rationale. He's beyond the point of reason if he truly thinks aliens are involved LOL.

I'd just tell him when you next see him that you're not really interested in discussing religion from any angle, and shift any further debate to some other controversial topic that doesn't involve Islam.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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16-04-2017, 09:36 PM
RE: Discussions with my muslim friend
<pulls out 11-Foot pole, backs out of room> No
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21-04-2017, 07:09 AM
RE: Discussions with my muslim friend
We had another discussion and my other friend joined in.
Let's call my new age friend A, and my other friend F.
F did most of the talking because he knows more than me.
Our discussion was around 3 hours long.
A: Aliens created Humans.
F: Then how do u explain the 98% similarities between us and chimps? We did not evolve from monkeys we have a common ancestor that may have looked like a monkey.
Then F started explaining the family tree to A, and A started to reconsider his ideas, and became more interested in listening to F's arguments.
F explained the double slit experiment, and the observer is a machine that records how many photons are emitted. And how the human eye can perceive reality differently and make errors.
When they got to the topic of Islam and Muhammad, before Kahdija's death half of the Qur'an were about love, peace , and forgiveness, but after her death the quran became about hate and hell fire.
Both of them started having a lot of common ground, and A has broken free from New age dogma, but he wants to hangout with me and F , he still has a lot of questions.
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21-04-2017, 07:54 AM
RE: Discussions with my muslim friend
(21-04-2017 07:09 AM)Ibrahim95128 Wrote:  ---
When they got to the topic of Islam and Muhammad, before Kahdija's death half of the Qur'an were about love, peace , and forgiveness, but after her death the quran became about hate and hell fire.
---

Ha - I think your friend A is a vulnerable person which is just what ISL looks for. I hope you can guide your friend A to reason so he stays out of trouble. Shy

Tell more about Kahdija. From your observations, is this person someone in Islamic culture who seems to be purposely ignored? If so, why? Could this subject be more widely addressed in mainstream Islam?

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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21-04-2017, 08:05 AM
RE: Discussions with my muslim friend
(16-04-2017 04:21 PM)Ibrahim95128 Wrote:  Him:We did not evolve, Aliens put us on earth and that they are experimenting with us and the alpha alien is Allah, while satan , demons and angels are also aliens.
We humans are the most preferred over other species, demons are less preffered but they are more advanced.

There is no way to respond to this, other than
"Ooooh, very cool story, bro, but really it needs some dragons and sexy vampires".
Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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21-04-2017, 08:32 AM (This post was last modified: 21-04-2017 08:36 AM by yakherder.)
RE: Discussions with my muslim friend
In my various Muslim acquaintances there's quite a wide variety of religious perspectives. One of my coworkers, whom I probably get along with better than most of the Christians or atheists, is a devout Muslim (only eats Halal, takes several breaks throughout the day to pray, has a full beard, etc) who did several civilian(ish) tours in Afghanistan as a contracted interpreter and has a good enough sense of humour to not get offended when we nicknamed him ISIL. Another coworker is a more casual Muslim who eats bacon, drinks bear, and to my knowledge doesn't pray or attend any kind of service. At the other and of the spectrum are the Somali inmates who all seem to be in the process of becoming radicalized by the terrorist wannabes whom we're not allowed to just throw in permanent segregation, leaving them free to spread their bullshit to the general population (formerly moderates, if even that) Muslims who readily soak it up like a sponge.

But no, I've never heard the Allah is an alien version before Facepalm

'Murican Canadian
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21-04-2017, 08:37 AM
RE: Discussions with my muslim friend
I think most religions are struggling to keep afloat. One of the easiest ways to "update" is to go all space age.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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