Dishonored vs Skyrim and Oblivion
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04-12-2013, 06:29 AM
RE: Dishonored vs Skyrim and Oblivion
(04-12-2013 03:06 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(03-12-2013 11:09 PM)SparkByTouch Wrote:  Dishonored is more of you following a story with a few side missions within a level itself. I played half way through it unsatisfied because it felt like a copy of Far Cry 3, only linear and less emotionally impactful.

As far as Oblivion and Skyrim...
If you want really good story, world depth, and attention to detail that you can mess with then Oblivion.
If you just want a simpler world plot, action, and all about leveling then Skyrim.

You know Dishonored is a linear action-stealth-RPG with character choice whereas Far Cry 3 is an open world shooter with RPG elements? That's why I compared Dishonored to Deus Ex, whereas Far Cry 3 is more akin to S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Also, how do you figure Oblivion had a better story than Skyrim? My favorite was becoming the Nerevarine in Morrowind, but still. Oblivion has you playing helper to the destined hero, Matrin, the bastard son of the deceased Emperor who becomes the 4 story tall incarnation of the fire dragon Akatosh and goes toe-to-toe with a god. Skyrim makes you the Dovakin (Dragon Born), and you are instrumental in kicking the ass of the ancient dragon Alduin the World Eater before it brings about the apocalypse. Also you kinda sorta play a big role in resolving a civil war, so there's that too.


Skyrim has a streamlined magic system that's more fun to use and effective than than the one in Oblivion. You can't use it to break the game as much (outside of alchemy and crafting exploits), and it's all far more well balanced than previous Elder Scrolls games. Dual wielding of weapons, spells, weapons and spells was not in Oblivion. The stealth system wasn't a flesh out in Oblivion as the one in Skyrim. The leveling mechanics and the feats make advancement and combat far more robust. You also can't seriously go back and compare Oblivion to Skyrim and say that Oblivion has better attention to detail?


Oblivion

[Image: oblivion_screenshots_0000s_0000s_0002s_0007_28.jpg]



Skyrim

[Image: LakeWaterfall_wLegal.jpg]



Oblivion

[Image: oblivion_screenshots_0000s_0000s_0002s_0003_24.jpg]



Skyrim

[Image: TheCompanions01_wLegal.jpg]


I rest my case. Drinking Beverage

I agree with you completely, except for your differentiation between graphics. Oblivion's graphics were of it's time. Skyrim's graphics are of it's time too. But compared to Skyrim, Oblivion did put a lot of detail into particular game elements like customization.

I think all the elder scrolls games deserve praise. They all have something different and unique about them, and they show that Bethesda's far from at a stand still.

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04-12-2013, 07:34 AM
RE: Dishonored vs Skyrim and Oblivion
(04-12-2013 05:25 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(04-12-2013 04:31 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Everything in Oblivion seemed like it was just on a bigger scale than the stuff happening in Skyrim. Skyrim is technically the better game but it's stories are flat, outside of the main quest none of the factions are interesting. Up until Martin became the avatar of Akatosh You were the last line of defense, the only one able to deal with those Oblivion gates. Skyrim never got anywhere close to the level of chaos that the Oblivion Crisis (towards the later stages) got to.

Really? Anyone could enter the the Oblivion gates and potentially shut them down, the entire country just happens to be filled with inept knights. In Skyrim the only way to put a dragon down for good is for it to die at the hands of a Dovakin, so that their souls are absorbed and can't be recycled back into their bodies. The Oblivion Crisis was interesting, but I thought the backdrop of the civil war was more engaging.


(04-12-2013 04:31 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion is the single best questline in the history of gaming. An Uninvited Guest is the single best quest in any rpg I have ever played. The Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim sucked it's quests were crap the random murders were of no challenge, there was nothing there that made it worth bothering to do the chain once you got the horse (after finishing it once for the achievement) The members of the safe house in Skyrim are some of the least likable and completely 1 dimensional characters I have ever seen in a Bethesda game...

Yes, that Whodunit? is a great quest, but its hardly original. They sacrificed a stronger central character in Oblivion (Lucien Lachance) for a more diverse cadre of assassins, but at least they tried. There was the werewolf nord barbarian, the crazy old mage, the little girl vampire, the insane jester, and the smooth and very cold redoran operator. Compare them to the support Brotherhood cast from Oblivion? It's a group of 1 dimensions characters against a single 2 dimensional one and a group of zero dimensional ones. Although I did enjoy the twist ending of the Oblivion story over Skyrim's; but you don't get to assassinate the Emperor in Oblivion.


(04-12-2013 04:31 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Until we meet the thieves guild. Ugg, what a horrible, horrible faction this is. As opposed to Oblivion where even when it was down on it's luck the thieves guild was still a slick operation, in Skyrim the thieves guild is populated by the biggest group of shiftless whiners. The nighthawk "twist" was borderline retarded and no one ever noticed that all the gold they had been accumulating (by what means I have no idea since none of the members seemed to understand how to thief) had been taken? Not 1 single person ever needed to deposit something in the guild treasury (which required 2 keys to open unless you used the magic skeleton key so there is no way Mercer could have hidden this) for 3 fucking years? No wonder they live in a sewer even though they are fronted by the woman running the town... who owns a tavern that could have easily served as the base of operations. Nothing about this faction makes any sense and it is all a shadow of the thieves guild from Oblivion. Thieves Guild advancement in Oblivion go be a thief and steal and fence X amount of gold. Thieves Guild Advancement in Skyrim Talk to 2 npc til they both give you the same quest in the same hold 5 times. Utter Disappointment.

This is one of the most nonsensical quest lines ever and I'm not even going to try and defend it. However Skyrim's radiant-quest system was a good attempt to added continuation and replay-ability to the faction post quest completion, which Oblivion had nothing of the sort.


(04-12-2013 04:31 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The Mages Guild, in Oblivion Magicka was game wrecking (potentially) and to join the mages guild required you to do a series of quests all over Cyrodiil and by the time you actually got to the guild you were invested in the story. In Skyrim you show up you yell at a bitch boom you're in. At least the quest chain here was halfway decent the labarthyth was fun and the payoff was on par with running a guild in Oblivion (which none of the rest are) so while the quest in Oblivion seemed bigger more epic and more pressing this was not bad and one of the better factions in Skyrim.

It has the whole 'Hogwarts' vibe to it of starting out as a student and moving on up that Oblivion lacked, for me at least. Also I like that they tried to re-balance the magic system and it largely worked.


(04-12-2013 04:31 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The Companions vs the Fighters guild. In Oblivion the Fighters Guild was the weakest and least fun of any of the guilds where as in Skyrim the Companions are probably the best faction so this ends up being a wash to a slight win for Skyrim. However since this is the first faction you come across in Skyrim it is decidedly low level stuff and does not scale well, do this first or you will probably be disappointed. Still it is the best Faction in Skyrim which is kind of like being the best car made in a communist country in the 50's.

The werewolf angle was a lot of fun, and it's cadre of members was about as well fleshed out as you'll find in any Bethesda game. Oh, did I mention you get to be a fucking werewolf?


(04-12-2013 04:31 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The Main quest comparison goes like this Dragons are great fun to hunt and kill and do not require the time that shutting all the optional Oblivion gates did. Dragons are also way more powerful of an enemy than any of the Daedra but there was never a crisis point. If a dragon attacked a keep while you where there it was fun but there was never a sense that "Oh Shit Son We All Gon Die" that the Oblivion crisis culminated in with the random gates opening everywhere. I actually enjoyed getting it to that point and then closing as many random gates as I could find. Alduin was kind of a pussy for the End Dragon but considering you never even got to try Mehrunes Dagon out (I agree that having the fight be decided by an NPC you had babysat so far was a bit of a letdown) and Skovengaard was pretty (all of skyrim was pretty on PC with some modded graphics to crank it up)

You thought the Oblivion Gates were 'Oh Shit' moments? Outside of the scripted story ones, they were always out in the middle of the wilderness. The Daedra never assaulted cities or town, they just hovered around their gates out in the woods and pestered random deer and bears. Compare that to Skyrim's dragons, which at higher levels can wipe out the lots of NPC's (like the entire guard force of a town) if left unchecked. You see them coming from miles away, sometimes they attacked and sometimes they didn't. When they did, there was a rush to get there and stop them before the dragon actually killed anyone. The Oblivion Gates never did that.

(04-12-2013 04:31 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  So while Skyrim is a better game as far as leveling, balance, and benefited from several extra years of work on the base game engine if Oblivion was given an overhaul to bring it's graphics and engine up to Skyrims level it would be hands down the better game.

/end rant

Except it would still be Oblivion. So while it had a much better Thieves Guild and a debatable better Dark Brotherhood, it falls short on the Mages, Fighters, and main quest line. If anything it would be a push, there really isn't anything 'hands down' better about Oblivion in comparison to Skyrim.

Also the game used an entirely different engine they built in house, not at all related to the licensed Gamebryo engine used in Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 & New Vegas.

This is probably just a matter of taste thing but I still think the story was better in oblivion. Skyrim was a far better game technically the fighting was smoother the leveling made more sense the magicka wasn't broken, I just think that Oblivion made up for it's faults with the story. Plus I kind of liked the OP magicka system you could make the ultimate killing machine with it (110% chameleon suit Breton with Autonaut sign to absorb magicka and max magicka pool) using self made touch spells (I liked to double my damage by adding 100% weakness to whatever element the spell was for 1 second and make the duration of the effect instant)

As you mentioned a few times Werewolves. I never really liked being a werewolf, I always was one of course because the passive bonus of immunity to disease was too good to pass up and I never sleep anyway so not gonna missed rested bonus. I didn't care for the controls (I know they expanded them in the dlc but I never got that so just talking about the base game here) I also didn't like the forced 3rd person view but if werewolf does it for you have at it.

Skyrim I had more fun off fucking around in the world climbing mountains and killing Giants cause fuck them they had to die, the story was just not as enthralling especially after the first play through. I think part of it was my expectations for the factions, I wanted to love the Dark Brotherhood again but compared to Oblivion I just couldn't even killing the Emperor felt bleh. I mean ffs all it does is add a line of gossip to random talk from Guards. It just felt like a step backwards to me and maybe because the Dark Brotherhood was my favorite faction that caused me to judge this version a bit more harshly. The thieves guild is just awful there is no 2 ways about it.

I forgot to mention the civil war. That was actually a nice side story I just wish they had not made the one side so blatantly Racist and shortsighted to the point that after siding with Ulfric and his Stormcloaks once for the achievement you never have to think about the choice again. It really took something away from concept, at least in my opinion. Again though this falls into the Skyrim problem of while it is an open world you choices make next to no difference in it. One the dragons are unleashed they are there forever. Picking a side in the civil war changes 2-3 of the Jarls and if you went with the KKK... err I mean the stormcloaks the cities guards got downgraded to meatbag. Again I am nitpicking here and I actually did love Skyrim I just think it had it's share of faults as well.

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05-12-2013, 07:30 AM
RE: Dishonored vs Skyrim and Oblivion
(04-12-2013 07:34 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(04-12-2013 05:25 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Really? Anyone could enter the the Oblivion gates and potentially shut them down, the entire country just happens to be filled with inept knights. In Skyrim the only way to put a dragon down for good is for it to die at the hands of a Dovakin, so that their souls are absorbed and can't be recycled back into their bodies. The Oblivion Crisis was interesting, but I thought the backdrop of the civil war was more engaging.



Yes, that Whodunit? is a great quest, but its hardly original. They sacrificed a stronger central character in Oblivion (Lucien Lachance) for a more diverse cadre of assassins, but at least they tried. There was the werewolf nord barbarian, the crazy old mage, the little girl vampire, the insane jester, and the smooth and very cold redoran operator. Compare them to the support Brotherhood cast from Oblivion? It's a group of 1 dimensions characters against a single 2 dimensional one and a group of zero dimensional ones. Although I did enjoy the twist ending of the Oblivion story over Skyrim's; but you don't get to assassinate the Emperor in Oblivion.



This is one of the most nonsensical quest lines ever and I'm not even going to try and defend it. However Skyrim's radiant-quest system was a good attempt to added continuation and replay-ability to the faction post quest completion, which Oblivion had nothing of the sort.



It has the whole 'Hogwarts' vibe to it of starting out as a student and moving on up that Oblivion lacked, for me at least. Also I like that they tried to re-balance the magic system and it largely worked.



The werewolf angle was a lot of fun, and it's cadre of members was about as well fleshed out as you'll find in any Bethesda game. Oh, did I mention you get to be a fucking werewolf?



You thought the Oblivion Gates were 'Oh Shit' moments? Outside of the scripted story ones, they were always out in the middle of the wilderness. The Daedra never assaulted cities or town, they just hovered around their gates out in the woods and pestered random deer and bears. Compare that to Skyrim's dragons, which at higher levels can wipe out the lots of NPC's (like the entire guard force of a town) if left unchecked. You see them coming from miles away, sometimes they attacked and sometimes they didn't. When they did, there was a rush to get there and stop them before the dragon actually killed anyone. The Oblivion Gates never did that.


Except it would still be Oblivion. So while it had a much better Thieves Guild and a debatable better Dark Brotherhood, it falls short on the Mages, Fighters, and main quest line. If anything it would be a push, there really isn't anything 'hands down' better about Oblivion in comparison to Skyrim.

Also the game used an entirely different engine they built in house, not at all related to the licensed Gamebryo engine used in Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 & New Vegas.

This is probably just a matter of taste thing but I still think the story was better in oblivion. Skyrim was a far better game technically the fighting was smoother the leveling made more sense the magicka wasn't broken, I just think that Oblivion made up for it's faults with the story. Plus I kind of liked the OP magicka system you could make the ultimate killing machine with it (110% chameleon suit Breton with Autonaut sign to absorb magicka and max magicka pool) using self made touch spells (I liked to double my damage by adding 100% weakness to whatever element the spell was for 1 second and make the duration of the effect instant)

As you mentioned a few times Werewolves. I never really liked being a werewolf, I always was one of course because the passive bonus of immunity to disease was too good to pass up and I never sleep anyway so not gonna missed rested bonus. I didn't care for the controls (I know they expanded them in the dlc but I never got that so just talking about the base game here) I also didn't like the forced 3rd person view but if werewolf does it for you have at it.

Skyrim I had more fun off fucking around in the world climbing mountains and killing Giants cause fuck them they had to die, the story was just not as enthralling especially after the first play through. I think part of it was my expectations for the factions, I wanted to love the Dark Brotherhood again but compared to Oblivion I just couldn't even killing the Emperor felt bleh. I mean ffs all it does is add a line of gossip to random talk from Guards. It just felt like a step backwards to me and maybe because the Dark Brotherhood was my favorite faction that caused me to judge this version a bit more harshly. The thieves guild is just awful there is no 2 ways about it.

I forgot to mention the civil war. That was actually a nice side story I just wish they had not made the one side so blatantly Racist and shortsighted to the point that after siding with Ulfric and his Stormcloaks once for the achievement you never have to think about the choice again. It really took something away from concept, at least in my opinion. Again though this falls into the Skyrim problem of while it is an open world you choices make next to no difference in it. One the dragons are unleashed they are there forever. Picking a side in the civil war changes 2-3 of the Jarls and if you went with the KKK... err I mean the stormcloaks the cities guards got downgraded to meatbag. Again I am nitpicking here and I actually did love Skyrim I just think it had it's share of faults as well.

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05-12-2013, 10:24 AM (This post was last modified: 05-12-2013 10:38 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Dishonored vs Skyrim and Oblivion
(04-12-2013 03:30 AM)ELK12695 Wrote:  Skyrim is a great game, but it lacks proper, good looking gore. Fallout solves that





What was that again? Drinking Beverage

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05-12-2013, 04:44 PM
RE: Dishonored vs Skyrim and Oblivion
I tried being stealthy, but I've still ended up with a high chaos level. Guards just started annoying me so I'd sneak up to them and slit their throat. They deserved it, looking in my direction for over a minute without letting me pass Sleepy

(05-12-2013 10:24 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(04-12-2013 03:30 AM)ELK12695 Wrote:  Skyrim is a great game, but it lacks proper, good looking gore. Fallout solves that





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I think ELK's point stands. Thumbsup

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05-12-2013, 08:29 PM
RE: Dishonored vs Skyrim and Oblivion
No, Vosur's right.
Fallout can't fix Skyrim because all Fallouts came before Skyrim.

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05-12-2013, 08:43 PM
RE: Dishonored vs Skyrim and Oblivion
Hughsie and I recently started re-playing Dishonored together (via Skyping because we play on consoles and have different consoles) and today we finished the second mission, High Overseer Campbell, on low chaos (not killing anyone) and we searched every nook and cranny for currency, as well as obtained every rune and bone charm, and it took us 6 fucking hours on Skype.

Tomorrow we'll start on House of Pleasure.

P.s. I count High Overseer Campbell as the second mission because Returning Home is more of a tutorial than anything.
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05-12-2013, 08:48 PM
RE: Dishonored vs Skyrim and Oblivion
(05-12-2013 08:43 PM)Ferdinand Wrote:  Hughsie and I recently started re-playing Dishonored together (via Skyping because we play on consoles and have different consoles) and today we finished the second mission, High Overseer Campbell, on low chaos (not killing anyone) and we searched every nook and cranny for currency, as well as obtained every rune and bone charm, and it took us 6 fucking hours on Skype.
You probably already know this, but you're slow as fuck. Consider

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05-12-2013, 08:53 PM
RE: Dishonored vs Skyrim and Oblivion
(05-12-2013 08:48 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 08:43 PM)Ferdinand Wrote:  Hughsie and I recently started re-playing Dishonored together (via Skyping because we play on consoles and have different consoles) and today we finished the second mission, High Overseer Campbell, on low chaos (not killing anyone) and we searched every nook and cranny for currency, as well as obtained every rune and bone charm, and it took us 6 fucking hours on Skype.
You probably already know this, but you're slow as fuck. Consider

NIGGER HAVE YOU GONE THROUGH AND FOUND/DONE EVERYTHING?

THERE IS A SHIT TON TO FIND/DO.

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But seriously, if the missions are short, you're leaving behind a lot of stuff. Big Grin
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05-12-2013, 09:01 PM
RE: Dishonored vs Skyrim and Oblivion
(05-12-2013 08:53 PM)Ferdinand Wrote:  NIGGER HAVE YOU GONE THROUGH AND FOUND/DONE EVERYTHING?
Yes. Drinking Beverage

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