Disproving Gravity
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15-02-2013, 04:17 PM
RE: Disproving Gravity
(15-02-2013 01:40 PM)Headasplode Wrote:  
(17-12-2010 11:38 AM)Norseman Wrote:  I have also read that somewhere. But if the moon moves away from the earth doesn't that mean that it receives less force from the earths spin, causing it to decelerate and thus move "fall" towards the earth again?
The answer is really quite simple. Ill spare you the equations and just use visual examples you can gather on your own time. Check out how close and far the moon appears in the winter as opposed to summer. Different amounts of force being applied to the moon depending on its distance from the sun. If the earth remained close to the sun for say 7-9 months (9 months of sunny sunshine happy summer time) then the sun would win the (Tug-o-War) against the earth, lunar effects would cease to exist and your head would asplode! That is all


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15-02-2013, 04:19 PM
RE: Disproving Gravity
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Of course the sun pulls harder on the moon than the earth does. The moon orbits the sun as well. It just happens to orbit the earth as well while doing so. Not difficult.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
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15-02-2013, 04:45 PM (This post was last modified: 15-02-2013 04:49 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Disproving Gravity
(16-12-2010 03:16 PM)latvianxave8 Wrote:  I know that Newton's laws of gravity have since been replaced by Einsteins theory of relativity, but I just wanted to share this little tid bit of information since I worked so hard on it. ( I did a little experiment myself Big Grin)

First I will demonstrate the gravitational attractive between the Sun and the Moon. Since the moons distance from the sun changes, I used the closest it could possibly get (during a solar eclipse). I am sure you all know the equation for universal gravity, but if you do not, then here is the formula:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_law_of_universal_gravitation

(1.9 x 10^30)(7.3 x 10^22) / 8.603 x 10^15

1.387 x 10^53 / 8.603 x 10^15

Solve this and you get 1.6 * 10^39. Multiply this by the gravitational constant and yo get the force. I will omit this purely for simplicity, and it would not effect which one is larger than the other anyway.

Now for the force between the Earth and Moon.

(5.9724 x 10^24)(7.3 x 10^22) / 6.250 x 10^10

I'll save you the steps, multiply this out and you get 6.8 x 10^38.

Clearly the force according to Newtons Law is stronger between the SUn and the Moon than between the Earth and the Moon. This suggest that the Moon should go towards the sun, or go around the sun, at least, not around the Earth.

This is so retarded.

Congratulations. You have noticed that the moon orbits the sun. But at the same time, it orbits the Earth. It wanders back and forth in it's orbit about the sun, sometimes in front of the Earth, sometimes behind, sometimes to the left, sometimes to the right. In fact, it does this wandering trick about 13 times a year, going all around the Earth.

Why should the sun rip the Moon out of Earth's orbit? They're both the same distance from the Sun (on average), so they both feel the same acceleration from the sun, and follow about the same orbit around the sun.

For equations, we can use F = m a. So combine that with F = G m1 m2 / r^2, we get this:

a = G m1 / r^2, where m1 is the mass of the sun. It doesn't matter if you figure the acceleration for the Earth or the Moon, you get the same value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit_of_th...around_Sun

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16-02-2013, 02:04 PM
RE: Disproving Gravity
(15-02-2013 01:40 PM)Headasplode Wrote:  
(17-12-2010 11:38 AM)Norseman Wrote:  I have also read that somewhere. But if the moon moves away from the earth doesn't that mean that it receives less force from the earths spin, causing it to decelerate and thus move "fall" towards the earth again?
The answer is really quite simple. Ill spare you the equations and just use visual examples you can gather on your own time. Check out how close and far the moon appears in the winter as opposed to summer. Different amounts of force being applied to the moon depending on its distance from the sun. If the earth remained close to the sun for say 7-9 months (9 months of sunny sunshine happy summer time) then the sun would win the (Tug-o-War) against the earth, lunar effects would cease to exist and your head would asplode! That is all
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21-02-2013, 06:11 PM
RE: Disproving Gravity
I scanned through the thread and saw that nobody had actually given a physical explanation as to why the moon is not drawn to the sun instead of the earth, even though this post is probably older than the forum itself I could not resist giving an explanation. It has to do with the fact that the whole (Earth Moon) - system is orbiting the sun.

Newtons law of gravitation - (Fg = G*M1*M2/(r^2))

The maximum amount of differential acceleration (difference between the acceleration acting on the moon and the earth by the sun) are since F = m*a given by:

difA = G*Ms/((Res-Rme)^2)-G*Ms/Res^2

The acceleration of the moon towards the earth coupled with the acceleration of the earth towards the moon is given by:

Atot = G*Me/Rms^2+G*Mm/Rms^2

Where Res is the distance between the earth and the sun and Rme the distance between the Earth and the moon. Ms the mass of the sun Mm the moon and Me the earth.


Now if the total acceleration between the moon and the earth is a lot smaller than the differential acceleration between those in relevance to the sun. That is to say difA is a lot smaller than Atot then we can conclude that tidal effects by the sun on the earth moon system are trivial.

In our moon, sun and earth system these values are.

difA = 3.06*10^(-5) m/s^2

Atot = 2.73*10^(-3) m/s^2


As we can see here the difference is a factor of a hundred. Which makes it possible for us to conclude that even if the sun plays a part the mayor player in the earth moon system is the earth.
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21-02-2013, 07:25 PM
RE: Disproving Gravity
That's what everyone already said. We just dispensed with the math for brevity.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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25-02-2013, 04:33 AM
RE: Disproving Gravity
Couldn't resist replying since a physical explanation is so simple.

OP: keep in mind that you're assuming a straight line vector in the 3 system body (Earth, moon then sun, in that order with the moon in between). Ignoring all other variables except orbit, your calculation still fails to take into account changes in vector. The moon is only directly between the Earth and the Sun for a brief amount of time. The moment it moves, it's no longer a single vector. You'd have to triangulate, resulting in a decrease in the effect of the sun's gravity. Hence we get the elliptical orbit.

Yes, within a certain range, the gravitation pull of the sun is stronger than the Earth. This results in the moon moving farther away from Earth. However, what do you think happens when the moon orbits around so the 3 body system results in moon -> Earth -> sun (i.e. the Earth between the moon and sun)? The combined pull of the two bodies results in the moon "correcting" itself and getting closer to Earth again.

So no, the moon should not be flying into the sun.

The title of this made me expect something else. There are theories that gravity is not a fundamental force (for various reasons, including that it is not observable and that it is is far too weak compared to the other fundamental forces, as well as the maths being very difficult to explain for multiple body systems, and how certain galaxies demonstrate electromagnetic properties that could replace gravitational ones, etc.). I thought it would be something along those lines.

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