Ditching the Cross
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29-03-2012, 11:13 AM
RE: Ditching the Cross
(29-03-2012 11:06 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  Egor,

I have to ask in what way you are not Christian? I thought the definition of a Christian was someone who believed in salvation through Jesus Christ. Wouldn't that mean you would still be technically classed a type of Christian?
Yeah, if Mormonism is a denomination Christianity so should Veridicanism.

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29-03-2012, 11:26 AM
RE: Ditching the Cross
Many fundies would not consider Mormons or Veridicans Christians. Because they do not strictly follow the Holy Bible.
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29-03-2012, 01:47 PM
RE: Ditching the Cross
Good idea to ditch the cross. It always seems morbid to me that people wear something resembling the torture and death equipment used to kill their god.

Next, you ought to consider ditching Jesus all together, there are already several Jesus worship churches, what we need is something new and fresh.
If you go towards humanities ability to apply reason and critical thought as well as substantiate ideas via verifiable evidence then your church will be based on solid foundations.
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29-03-2012, 01:50 PM
RE: Ditching the Cross
(29-03-2012 01:47 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Good idea to ditch the cross. It always seems morbid to me that people wear something resembling the torture and death equipment used to kill their god.

Next, you ought to consider ditching Jesus all together, there are already several Jesus worship churches, what we need is something new and fresh.

I might recommend the Elder Sign and Cthulhu as replacements.

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30-03-2012, 12:54 AM
RE: Ditching the Cross
Maybe not abandon the cross altogether. Keep a semblance of it so people know you share similar beliefs.

I hear the Iron Cross recently became available to adopt.





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30-03-2012, 12:57 AM
RE: Ditching the Cross
Oh Egor, my old friend... It is nice that you have seen how the Christians treat you, how different they see the Word of God... Now did you ever question yourself that maybe you are doing the same thing sometimes? That you are representing something you think is right, but it may not be?

Big Grin

Anyway, good for you to question things, keep away from prime-Christians, you do not want to be associated with them. As for your sign, why not just use:
[Image: 24085.jpg]

Big Grin

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30-03-2012, 01:00 AM
 
RE: Ditching the Cross
(29-03-2012 09:44 AM)germanyt Wrote:  LOL'd at 'entire congregation'. I'd rep you for that if you weren't you.
Thanks, but I rather like the rep points the way they are.

(29-03-2012 09:46 AM)lucradis Wrote:  You gotta have some kind of symbol, otherwise us atheists won't know who's burning us at the stake Wink

Also I've never understood the whole cross thing anyways. Seems really disrespectful.
If my hero had died by bear trap I wouldn't likely be seen wearing a bear trap necklace let alone one with him wearing a bear trap on his leg in pain.

The cross represents true power. Remember, Jesus didn’t have to go to the cross; he went to the cross to obey God’s will, in fact, to show that his will and God’s will were the same. The ability to choose the cross means the world can’t really do anything to you. It means you’re greater than the world.

It’s not really the same thing as a bear trap.

Moreover, Jesus was clear about this: If you can’t pick up your cross daily, you can’t be one of his disciples.

“And the one who does not take up their cross daily and follow Me is not worthy of Me.” (VGJC 23:15)

The cross is very special. Of course the Christians believe it’s like a sacrificial alter. But I say it is the ultimate symbol of power.

(29-03-2012 09:49 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  How about this:

Since the Greek symbol for Christ is an X, your symbol could be a chi (X). Make the top part of the chi (which is a V) a different color (red maybe). Also, behind it you could add whatever other symbol you wanted (crown of thorns, empty tomb, nails, etc).

There’s really no point, is there? I mean it’s a good idea, but it’s too contrived. Using the neologism “Veridican” is bad enough.

(29-03-2012 11:06 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  Egor,

I have to ask in what way you are not Christian? I thought the definition of a Christian was someone who believed in salvation through Jesus Christ. Wouldn't that mean you would still be technically classed a type of Christian?

I think it’s mostly to do with the Holy Bible. One really can’t call themselves a Christian if they don’t believe the Holy Bible is the Word of God. Atheists have always called me a Christian; Christians have always called me a heretic or Satanist or anti-Christ. Truth is, I’m a Veridican. A Veridican is one who follows the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is not what a Christian believes.

(29-03-2012 11:26 AM)kineo Wrote:  Many fundies would not consider Mormons or Veridicans Christians. Because they do not strictly follow the Holy Bible.
Exactly.

(29-03-2012 01:47 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Good idea to ditch the cross. It always seems morbid to me that people wear something resembling the torture and death equipment used to kill their god.

Next, you ought to consider ditching Jesus all together, there are already several Jesus worship churches, what we need is something new and fresh.
If you go towards humanities ability to apply reason and critical thought as well as substantiate ideas via verifiable evidence then your church will be based on solid foundations.

You wouldn’t know a solid foundation if you were buried in one. Atheism is going to die, too. Right now you are a parasite on the host which is the Christian Church. Once you have killed your host, you will die too. Let me explain more graphically—and stick with me now because there will be a point.

When I was a Humane Officer in Southern California twenty years ago, one of the tasks we performed was picking up dead animals off the city streets (Riverside). So, I go and pick up this bloated dog and bring it back to the shelter to throw in the freezer with the others, as I pull it out, a bunch of maggots fall onto the driveway. Just then, the chickens we had collectively seized over the years (which we just let run free around the shelter grounds) came running over and immediately began eating the maggots. They loved them. Christianity is the bloated dog. Atheism is the maggots. Veridicanism is the chickens.
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30-03-2012, 02:15 AM
RE: Ditching the Cross
Wouau, this maggot story is just... wouau! You do realise this is only YOUR personal opinion and representation of your views and some events that happened? It proves nothing, it has nothing to do with anything.

I can't believe you still do not understand how IN THIS WORLD it really matters not in what you believe. Nothing changes. As you follow the Word of God, you should know that we all have free will, and that would mean that God does not and must not interfere with the works of man. Upon your death you will be sentenced and judged and by your actions rewarded or punished for eternity.

So this claims of yours that we are parasites and that your new church (with 2 members Smile ) is going to "destroy" us is just ridiculous, wrong and goes against the things you believe in. You just don't think about it the right way. Let me try to help you, as always...

There will always be people who think about afterlife and those who think only about this world, thus there will ALWAYS be atheists in this world, as there has always been. Why do you think that we will die out when the church (Christianity) is gone? That makes no sense at all. Look, we are not atheist because there is Christianity, so we are rebelling against it, we are called atheists because we do not believe that there is an entity you call God. If all the Christians were to die, or stop being Christians (or whatever), that would not make us believers, that would just make us be much more quiet because we will not have anything to complain any more. So, even if we were to be quiet, we would still not believe in any God, thus we would still be atheists.

As for your analogy, if Christianity is a dog and we are the maggots that depend on that dead dog, then you (as a chicken) are also depended on us (maggots), or without us your (Veridicanism) would die. Since you still do not understand atheists (but understand Christians and Veridicanism), by your analogy and my explanation of the wrong facts, here is the conclusion:

- Christianity is dying and it is rotten, as every day more Christian sect are forming, thus weakening the One Christianity
- atheists do not depend on any other religion, because religions did not make us, we just do not follow them
- Veridicanism is depended on atheists, since you would not know what to do without us, you love us, we are the reason you live the way you do. If it weren't for us, you would still me a mild Christian and you would never start questioning the things that led you to discovering and forming Veridicanism.

So, instead of bashing us you should THANK us every day, you and your religion exist because of us and without us you will not be what you are today!

So, is this TTA vs. EGOR - 36527:0?

Feel free to think about this as long and as hard as you can, imagine that there nevere were any atheists around you and that this forum never existed, how different everything would be?

Big Grin

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30-03-2012, 04:22 AM
RE: Ditching the Cross
(30-03-2012 01:00 AM)Egor Wrote:  Atheism is going to die, too. Right now you are a parasite on the host which is the Christian Church. Once you have killed your host, you will die too.
I can see that you have not paid much attention to the teachings of your lord and saviour Jesus Christ as documented in the New Testament. From what I gather he lived a life (according to the book) in order to inspire people by example of how to be loving and compassionate to each other. Was he quoted as to boasting how certain people would die and calling them names such as maggots?
If you have been chosen by god to rewrite the bible and you are to inspire others (other than your wife) to follow your version, then it might be wise to behave more Christ-like as an example as to what a person can become when inspired by the Veridican.

It is my atheist view that the people of the earth will learn to cohabitate peacefully, to enjoy the diversity that people of different countries, cultures, races, skin colour, gender, sexual preference, religious beliefs or non beliefs have to offer. I think if Jesus Christ were alive today, he would like my view substantially more than yours that I quoted above. Yes, I can see him smiling now, as I type, Ooops, that's just my white reflection in the window, 'bout time I had a shave.
Quote:So, I go and pick up this bloated dog and bring it back to the shelter to throw in the freezer with the others, as I pull it out, a bunch of maggots fall onto the driveway. Just then, the chickens we had collectively seized over the years (which we just let run free around the shelter grounds) came running over and immediately began eating the maggots. They loved them. Christianity is the bloated dog. Atheism is the maggots. Veridicanism isthe chickens.
I hope you feed the missus more than maggots. My wife got to eat some freshly cooked stir fried chicken with vegetables tonight, she seemed pleasantly content.
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01-04-2012, 01:57 AM
 
RE: Ditching the Cross
(30-03-2012 04:22 AM)Stevil Wrote:  It is my atheist view that the people of the earth will learn to cohabitate peacefully, to enjoy the diversity that people of different countries, cultures, races, skin colour, gender, sexual preference, religious beliefs or non beliefs have to offer. I think if Jesus Christ were alive today, he would like my view substantially more than yours that I quoted above.

Yeah... No ...I think you need to read the Gospel a bit more. I think he'd agree with this statement: Accept that he (Jesus Christ) is the only way to God or be destroyed. Reject him, and you go to hell.

I don't think you realize just how intolerant Jesus was.

But that's the way the truth is--there's no gray area. Reality is reality. There's mercy; there's tolerance, forgiveness, patience, but truth is still truth. If you must be born again into a spiritual oneness with Christ in order to be qualified for the next phase of existence, which Jesus called the Kingdom of Heaven, then there is no way around it.

As an atheist, you hope that there is no life after death. But that's only true for people who never put their faith in Christ. For those who actively reject Christ (as all atheists do) there is hell, hell for the pleasure of God. And, yeah, God is that way.

If you want to know what hell is like, it's easy. Just imagine being alone and conscious in a black void. The source of everything you desire or ever have desired is in a light just off in the distance, and you will yourself toward it forever, never reaching it, always wanting it and never having it. Always wishing for it, longing for it, and never reaching it, ever. Your entire existence will be an unfulfilled desire that lasts forever.

In this life, we don't get what we want, but we get little stand-ins for what we want. Money can give us a fake kind of power that stands-in for real power. We get a season when we are attractive to other people and we have sex, and that makes us feel special and wanted, and that's a stand-in for the real thing. We get temporary love from our marriages (straight or gay), but those end at some point in some way, but they stand-in for the communion we desire with God. We never really get what we want, but at least this life ends at some point.

I don't think you can fathom hell, because you are headed there and so psychologically you will avoid it or deny it. I can examine it, because I'm born again, and I'm safe. But you should try to examine hell. Because we all have only three fates, heaven, destruction, or hell.

You can spend your life rejecting God, and then He will spend His life rejecting you.

I'd reconsider Pascal's Wager if I were you.

So, did you want to keep talking about my religious beliefs and Jesus Christ or were you just making a rhetorical point?

Goodevil
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