Divine Command Theory/God's Morality Can't Be Questioned
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14-06-2017, 09:13 AM
Divine Command Theory/God's Morality Can't Be Questioned
Hello all,

I am new to this forum and would like to ask some questions:

One of my biggest problems in my former Christian/theistic beliefs (and any religion with the claim of a purported "sovereign" deity) is the teaching that a god's actions cannot be subjected to human moral scrutiny. You all know this is especially popular in Calvinist circles. It often comes up to me as one of the below from defenders of Divine Command Theory type thinking:

"God is not the same TYPE of being as a human. He is not of the same order as if he is subjected to the same standards of morality that we are. We aren't on the same playing field".

"Our moral compasses are flawed and cannot call into question the actions/character of a perfectly moral being".

"God created us so he has ownership of us. He can do whatever he wills to whomever he wills".

Now, I know all of the above are wrong and morally reprehensible, but it does not appear that I'm able to articulate in a convincing enough manner to theists why. I simply know there is a major problem with the concept of a being whose actions/character cannot be questioned regardless of whatever "order" they may be, or that there is even such an acceptable claim that there is an "order" higher than us, at all. So I ask: can any of you advise on any good resources or books that may articulate why these concepts are wrong, or perhaps your own way of saying how these concepts are wrong? I appreciate your consideration and this forum!

--Demolition Man
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14-06-2017, 09:17 AM
RE: Divine Command Theory/God's Morality Can't Be Questioned
Welcome to TTA.

What it comes down to is ... who is interpreting and enforcing these Divine Commands?

And which Divine? Brahma?

Nuff said.

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14-06-2017, 09:20 AM
RE: Divine Command Theory/God's Morality Can't Be Questioned
The people that benefit from religions don't want those religions questioned. There's really nothing more to it than this.
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14-06-2017, 09:24 AM
RE: Divine Command Theory/God's Morality Can't Be Questioned
Demolition Man = A good movie. Anyway....

In all honesty, you'll never win with anybody who says things like that. This is a theist way of saying "God wins LOL" because every sentence implies you don't understand, as it's all gods master plan etc. It's basically them being massive hipsters: "You don't get god, he's too smart for you to understand".

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14-06-2017, 09:27 AM
RE: Divine Command Theory/God's Morality Can't Be Questioned
First off, welcome.

Second off, Calvinism is BY FAR the vilest and most morally repugnant of all vile and morally repugnant Xtian denominations. It's vileness and arrogance and random injustice incarnate.
[Image: calvinism.gif]

[Image: 14224682_1132650136781441_1123090084033407521_n.jpg]

[Image: she-loves-me-she-loves-me-not.jpg]

Also, you might want to look at this clip and maybe even show it to theists, ask them, how come they're so sure their god is a good one. And if they cannot be sure, why do the worship an evil one?




"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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14-06-2017, 09:29 AM
RE: Divine Command Theory/God's Morality Can't Be Questioned
First things first: you might try and introduce yourself in the Introductions section. Tell us briefly a little about yourself.

As far as this goes:
(14-06-2017 09:13 AM)Demolition Man Wrote:  ... it does not appear that I'm able to articulate in a convincing enough manner to theists why.
You will never be able to convince a theist anything until they are open to the possibility of being wrong. Best you can do is to make your case and let the chips fall where they may.

While I'm not familiar with books specifically on divine command theory, you might try Karen Armstrong's Fields of Blood: Religion and the History of Violence as a place to start. It's heavy stuff but well-written and Armstrong knows her stuff. It doesn't get into divine command theory specifically, but it does make clear that those who were perpetrating horrific acts in the name of religion thought they were doing so on command of their God; therefore, whatever they did was OK.

There's also this: 16 Problems with Divine Command Theory

And this: Divine Command Theory
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14-06-2017, 09:38 AM
RE: Divine Command Theory/God's Morality Can't Be Questioned
(14-06-2017 09:17 AM)DLJ Wrote:  What it comes down to is ... who is interpreting and enforcing these Divine Commands?

Actually what it comes down to is who cooked up these "divine" commands ?
(Every one has a known HUMAN origin).

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14-06-2017, 09:43 AM
RE: Divine Command Theory/God's Morality Can't Be Questioned
Ask them how they came to hear said commandments from said god. They should tell you from the writers of the bible, aka mere men. So for all their crowing about how it's "god's divine wisdom", everyone who follows Christianity learned it from men. So that alone blows up their "god's law not man's law" bullshit.

But of course they came up with "but the biblical writers were inspired by god", which is nothing more than a cover-your-ass statement. When they say that, and they will, you ask how they can prove said writers were inspired. They will not be able to, and that's why they fall back on "faith".

Granted this is mostly a waste of time because until the "faith" part is destroyed, logic can't win. But you can pretty much boil it down to a "You can't prove it's NOT from god" type argument, and when they go there, the conversation is over.
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14-06-2017, 09:45 AM
RE: Divine Command Theory/God's Morality Can't Be Questioned
(14-06-2017 09:13 AM)Demolition Man Wrote:  "God is not the same TYPE of being as a human. He is not of the same order as if he is subjected to the same standards of morality that we are. We aren't on the same playing field".

"Our moral compasses are flawed and cannot call into question the actions/character of a perfectly moral being".

Do they also claim that god is loving or good? If so, they are hypocritical.

We can only judge by the standards we understand and by those standards the god of the bible is a despicable thug. To say that he might be "good" in some sense we can't understand is meaningless. To say that he has the power to do what he wants regardless of our opinion or understanding is to concede the point that by our standards he is immoral.

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14-06-2017, 10:03 AM
RE: Divine Command Theory/God's Morality Can't Be Questioned
(14-06-2017 09:13 AM)Demolition Man Wrote:  "Our moral compasses are flawed and cannot call into question the actions/character of a perfectly moral being".

So letting innocent infants die of starvation and dehydration by the millions, and babies die of cancer is in the purview of their "perfectly moral being" ? Laugh out load

What does a "perfectly moral being" mean ?
Is the standard of perfection a standard which exists apart from their god, that he can be judged to be "perfect" by (in which case he can't be the origin of the standard, and that means not the creator of "perfection" itself), OR is the standard of perfectly moral, just what their god happens to be ? In either case, the concept is flawed and meaningless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

I guarantee you, your theist friends have no answers to these (therefore meaningless) questions.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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