Divorce and Prenups
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17-11-2015, 08:20 PM
RE: Divorce and Prenups
(17-11-2015 07:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Prenups undermine the basic contractual foundation of marriage. If you ain't gonna be full partners in the contract without all these opt-outs, then why you even signing up?

Maybe...but when either party can get out of the "contract" at any time for any or no reason and often do, then they make a lot of sense.

I went into my first marriage 100% and expected it to last forever, and I think my ex did too. Things changed and about 6.5 years down the road she wanted out while I didn't. Undecided

From this I learned two things:

1) I'm not special. The stats apply to me too.
2) No matter how committed I am to a marriage, I'm only half of the equation. If my wife wants a divorce, I can do nothing to prevent it.

So if I get married again, I'll definitely get a prenup. Not because I'm planning on getting divorced, but because you can't know at the beginning if the relationship is going to last - even if you both intend it to at the time.

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

-Rowan Atkinson
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17-11-2015, 08:32 PM
RE: Divorce and Prenups
(17-11-2015 08:18 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I don’t think it’s that uncomplicated bemore.

I do.

Money is not important to me, it never has been. I wouldn't rush into marriage. I would have to be with a person for a long time (5+ years) before I even considered it.

Just like the small faces sang "Yes its...... allllll or nothing"

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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17-11-2015, 08:36 PM
RE: Divorce and Prenups
(17-11-2015 08:32 PM)bemore Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 08:18 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I don’t think it’s that uncomplicated bemore.

I do.

You and I will just have to differ on this point.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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17-11-2015, 08:37 PM
RE: Divorce and Prenups
(17-11-2015 07:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Prenups undermine the basic contractual foundation of marriage. If you ain't gonna be full partners in the contract without all these opt-outs, then why you even signing up?
So you fall into that camp. I thought that might be the case. The basis of marriage (IMO) is, "I want to build a life together with you and plan for you to be my family unit." I personally don't understand feeling entitled to another person's earned assets though (especially after a divorce). I guess I wasn't raised to expect that type of thing, even from family.

(17-11-2015 07:41 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 02:45 PM)julep Wrote:  I think prenups are an okay idea, but I've heard of many going wrong. I don't have one--I've been married for 20 years--and probably wouldn't have been willing to enter into one, personally. My husband and I went into our marriage with roughly equivalent financial assets, though.

The words "far beyond" in your post stuck out to me as hinting at a lack of respect for your partner. If she's someone who you basically feel superior to, maybe it would be a good idea to look instead for a person you can wholeheartedly admire and respect. (as it's hard enough to stay married even in that circumstance)

I got the same impression.

You you feel you are superior to your other half (which is very condescending btw) you don't have a very healthy relationship.

At least that's how the post comes across.
Did you read my response to her? I look at money habits as a trait, and you can evaluate traits on a person. I'm only stating facts. Obviously if I felt like money was more important than her as a person I wouldn't be with her. To me it's similar to saying "I am far beyond her as an animal lover" (which isn't true). Point is, it's just a statement acknowledging what is.

(17-11-2015 07:49 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  This may sound harsh but try finding an SO that is roughly on equal financial footing with you. At the very least someone who thinks about money the same way you do. My definition of a mixed marriage is a frugal person marrying a spendthrift. The number one cause of divorce is money issues.

"In a poll conducted by http://www.DivorceMagazine.com this summer, the leading cause of divorce was found to be financial issues, followed closely by basic incompatibility. “During the divorce, the two most contentious issues are usually finances and children – in that order,” says Dan Couvrette, publisher of Divorce Magazine. “If there are no children, then basic incompatibility and communication problems follow on the heels of money problems.”
https://www.institutedfa.com/Leading-Causes-Divorce/

I think a prenup in this situation is a very smart idea. Include the equity in your home and whatever other equity in fixed assets you own and what you have in your bank accounts, retirement savings etc.

Once you marry however, whatever the two of you bring in, a lot or a little, is 50/50.

Hire a lawyer that specializes in pre-nups and divorce.
If your SO has a problem with the pre-nup this might be an early warning sign.
Yeah, I used to think that I needed to be with somebody who made X amount of money per year. This was the childhood fantasy of my future life I came up with in my preteens. But it turns out, it's much more important to me to find somebody who I can spend each moment happily with, rather than somebody who makes as much as me or has my saving habits. She isn't that terrible with her spending habits, probably slightly better than the average American (which might not say much). I just happen to be "over-the-top" when it comes to frugality and saving. Apparently all my friends talk about it because it's become my "thing" even with people I don't know haha.

She and I are open about money, because I know the statistics that money is a large cause of breaking up.

I think the prenup will hurt her emotionally (unfortunately), but I think she is logical enough to consider it.

---
Anyways, to the thread, I'm not looking for relationship advice. You guys can analyze our situation however you wish I suppose, but I'd just advise that *not everyone thinks like you* and there really are many paradigms for partnership out there.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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17-11-2015, 08:42 PM
RE: Divorce and Prenups
(17-11-2015 08:20 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Same for me and Mrs. FC but we both started with nothing, it would different if there was a large discrepancy from the get go.

So did GirlyManlyManGirl Inc. Don't see why a large discrepancy would influence my decision. If I don't completely trust my spouse then why would I enter into such a binding full partnership contract?

#sigh
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17-11-2015, 08:43 PM
RE: Divorce and Prenups
(17-11-2015 07:58 PM)bemore Wrote:  If you had to choose between all of your money or your girlfriend, what would you choose?

If its your money, dont get married.

(17-11-2015 08:32 PM)bemore Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 08:18 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I don’t think it’s that uncomplicated bemore.

I do.

Money is not important to me, it never has been. I wouldn't rush into marriage. I would have to be with a person for a long time (5+ years) before I even considered it.

Just like the small faces sang "Yes its...... allllll or nothing"
I've been with her for 6 years (minus 40 days), we know each other very well. The point isn't weighing money against our relationship...it's pointing out that life happens. What CanOfBeans said above lays it out pretty well.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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17-11-2015, 08:46 PM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2015 08:58 PM by Adrianime.)
RE: Divorce and Prenups
(17-11-2015 08:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 08:20 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Same for me and Mrs. FC but we both started with nothing, it would different if there was a large discrepancy from the get go.

So did GirlyManlyManGirl Inc. Don't see why a large discrepancy would influence my decision. If I don't completely trust my spouse then why would I enter into such a binding full partnership contract?
Hmm, why would having a prenup indicate distrust?

I guess you could say I don't trust any person to stay exactly as they are now. The present her I definitely trust. I don't know the future her though. Nor do I know the future me.

Further: It isn't really a matter of trust even then. I don't expect her to become a person who I have a reason to distrust. I just don't agree with the notion that because somebody married you they have a right to profit from leaving you. Maybe you guys think that I believe she would divorce me for money or something? I don't think that would ever happen. A divorce could happen for many reasons: infidelity, drug use, irreconcilable differences, etc. The reason doesn't especially matter.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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17-11-2015, 08:55 PM
RE: Divorce and Prenups
(17-11-2015 08:46 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 08:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So did GirlyManlyManGirl Inc. Don't see why a large discrepancy would influence my decision. If I don't completely trust my spouse then why would I enter into such a binding full partnership contract?
Hmm, why would having a prenup indicate distrust?

Why wouldn't it? The opt-outs are what you distrust.

#sigh
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17-11-2015, 08:55 PM
RE: Divorce and Prenups
I take my inspiration of life and wisdom from various places. One of these is the regrets that people have spoke about who are dying. These include regrets of working too much or put too much emphasis on material possessions.

Money to me means nothing. It doesn't factor into love anywhere with me. If I had the choice between living a half happy life and being rich, or living a fully happy life and being a pauper. I would be a pauper.

I understand that you wish to protect yourself and your investments, I get that. It just complicates matters for me, that's all.

It's just the person I am and thats where we will have to agree to disagree.

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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17-11-2015, 08:58 PM
RE: Divorce and Prenups
(17-11-2015 03:03 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 02:18 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  (like incremental payments for the number of years married for example).
What does this entail?

(17-11-2015 02:45 PM)julep Wrote:  The words "far beyond" in your post stuck out to me as hinting at a lack of respect for your partner. If she's someone who you basically feel superior to, maybe it would be a good idea to look instead for a person you can wholeheartedly admire and respect. (as it's hard enough to stay married even in that circumstance)
Nah, it's just a fact that I make a lot more money than her and that she isn't great with money. There are many people who are "far beyond" me in both income and money management skills, just as there are many who are far beyond me in handiness or survival skills. I'm just stating the facts. We've talked a bit about her money management skills, and she knows she has much room for improvement. We all have strengths and weaknesses, that just happens to be one of her "weaknesses".

Even if we were making the same, a prenup isn't unreasonable. For instance if one spouse wrote a book that made them a multi-millionaire, should the other spouse be entitled to a large piece of that success if they divorce? I think no, I believe the law thinks yes.

I didn't say a prenup was unreasonable. I just said I wouldn't personally agree to one. If I ever become a single multimillionaire and fall madly in love with a homeless person, I'd consider one, but I don't want a relationship with such a big imbalance of power.

And I'm not trying to analyze your relationship, but that fact that you are evidently spending a bunch of time talking about her flaws--unless she is spending an equal amount of time talking about your flaws and all the things you need to do to bring yourself up to her level in other areas--makes me think a prenup is a good idea for your relationship, if you get married. Eventually, people get tired of being told how much they need to improve by their spouses. And if you both spend lots of time analyzing one another's flaws--marry that girl, you've found your soulmate.

In the case of the spouse writing the book and becoming a multimillionaire from it, the other spouse is certainly entitled to compensation for making it possible for the writing spouse to devote the time to writing and marketing of said book. Half of the proceeds? Maybe not. But having a moral and legal right to share in the rewards of two people's hard work? Yes.
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