Divorce stuff
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01-06-2016, 01:15 PM
RE: Divorce stuff
Hug

Think hard about what you wrote and constructive things you can take away from your old situation. I hope for the best result, for you. Personally, I'd cool it with the other gal, until you find out more about what the husband is really like. He might be a homicidal maniac when he finds out what she's been doing.
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01-06-2016, 02:24 PM
RE: Divorce stuff
Thanks everyone for all great feedback.

To clear up a few things, my angel has left her husband. In fact, she left him before I made my move. If you read some of my other posts in the PI&S section, you can probably figure out what her situation was. He is indeed crazy and I have a concealed carry on me at all times just in case it is ever necessary. He already knows who I am because he has had a PI on her since she left him.

We have no intentions of introducing each other to our children until we are both through with our divorces.

So far, my divorce is going the mediated route. Hers is not and will likely take a year or more to resolve because he has the money to drag it out just to torture her.

We are both seeking individual counseling. We are also both completely and painfully honest with each other about stuff, which is both scary and also such a huge relief. But I have no desire to candy coat anything and we both have already shared the worst we have to offer, so...

I just wanted to let you know that I love you even though you aren't naked right now. Heart
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01-06-2016, 02:39 PM (This post was last modified: 01-06-2016 02:54 PM by Adrianime.)
RE: Divorce stuff
I tend to offer advice from the perspective of personal experience. So really, it's not so much advice, but more like "this is what happened to me, how I felt, what I did." This won't be any different I suppose.

First, sorry things aren't going as smooth as you would like with your wife. And especially sorry about the added stress over the atheist outing.

As a product of an unhappy marriage, I always encourage people to get out of unhappy marriages. I grew up wishing my parents would divorce. They finally did when I was 18. I was so happy. Living in an unhappy household made the thought of going home sucky. I always wanted to be out of the house. So really, if you aren't happy with your wife, haven't been for a long time, and don't see a way to work it out...I'd encourage you to move on. But only you can make that call (and sounds like you have).

As far as the new woman. I'll echo what others have said and say rebounding and projection can be at play. She may be great, I don't deny that. But I'm personally very, very, very cautious with the term love. Like, do I really know somebody who I've only seen for 10 hours total? 20? 50? Personally, I feel like you can't learn enough about a person without living with them first (to really know if there is a future). I know I've been guilty of falling for "the idea of her" rather than her. And I know the feeling of being so hungry for affection, that when you get it it probably feels like whatever getting high feels like. (And I know that acute change when feelings of infatuation turn into a platonic affection as I realize that really, we sooo don't click on so many levels.)

None of that means it won't work out. But I'd give it time, and not set myself up to get devastated should things go awry. I'd especially be wary of her husband/ex whether or not she has split. You never know what a person might do to protect what he thinks of as "his". My dad actually stalked my mom a little after the divorce. For years he sent her angry Emails and left long voicemails berating her. Point is, he might be dangerous, or he might add a whole bunch of anxiety and stress to your life. Especially if she hasn't made the split. And what if she says she decided to try to work things out with him after all? I mean, you would be heart broken, right? I can't recommend putting your heart in such a defenseless position. I hope she really does commit, and shows that she is willing to walk this path with you. Because walking it alone will be very hard.

I don't know if you remember/saw my story, and I'm not going to share it here, but I'll say that I am an overly cautious person when it comes to stuff like this. I want to know that I know that I know before I make the commitment. It's my own form of self preservation, and building out my future. But I can't say it would work well for everybody.

TL;DR: It takes a lot of time and heart to heart to really know somebody. Getting past who they project themselves to be, who you want them to be, and really getting to who they are is not a fast process. I cautiously say, protect yourself first (and really, love yourself first). Don't put yourself in a situation where new girl can break you just because she loses interest or decides to go in another direction. Not YET anyways.

EDIT: Saw your post that she has left her husband. But I'll keep what I originally wrote up.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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01-06-2016, 02:42 PM
RE: Divorce stuff
(01-06-2016 02:24 PM)TurkeyBurner Wrote:  Thanks everyone for all great feedback.

To clear up a few things, my angel has left her husband. In fact, she left him before I made my move. If you read some of my other posts in the PI&S section, you can probably figure out what her situation was. He is indeed crazy and I have a concealed carry on me at all times just in case it is ever necessary. He already knows who I am because he has had a PI on her since she left him.

We have no intentions of introducing each other to our children until we are both through with our divorces.

So far, my divorce is going the mediated route. Hers is not and will likely take a year or more to resolve because he has the money to drag it out just to torture her.

We are both seeking individual counseling. We are also both completely and painfully honest with each other about stuff, which is both scary and also such a huge relief. But I have no desire to candy coat anything and we both have already shared the worst we have to offer, so...

Heart

I hope things progress in a mutually positive direction and hope that her ex doesn't do anything truly regrettable.

Hug


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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01-06-2016, 10:03 PM
RE: Divorce stuff
I am sorry to hear that you are going through this.

Even when divorce is best for all involved it usually isn't easy. It's a huge life change that affects every aspect of you life.

I would also advise moving forward with care with your new lady. Both of you are going through huge changes and once things settle down around you your perspective on things will be different.

Don't make any permanent decisions during upheaval.

It's good that you have someone you can connect with but remember that when life becomes more normal what you want/need in your life will be different than it is right now.

Good luck...keep your head about you and be sure that you do what's best for you and your kids.

As for defending yourself to people who weren't part of your marriage...screw them. They didn't live your life and they don't know everything.

Hugs and best wishes for some peace in your world soon.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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01-06-2016, 10:10 PM
RE: Divorce stuff
(01-06-2016 11:19 AM)TurkeyBurner Wrote:  So, my life is in the blender right now.

My wife is a christian. Even though she said she respected my "decision" to be an atheist and that it wasn't a big deal, she constantly blames any emotion other than happiness that I experience on the fact that I am leaving god out of my life. Honestly, I could probably overlook that. But there are other circumstances that date back years that had already weakened our marriage to the edge of breaking.

She has had serious control issues from the very beginning. But, she was my first serious girlfriend in high school and I gave up so much of myself to keep her happy for fear of losing her. I had no idea what I was doing. Our early relationship was very one sided and the early years of our marriage was pretty rocky. We've been married for 18 years now. For the last several years, our relationship has been more like that of a parent-child, or at best roommates that occasionally had (totally uninspired) sex. She pities me for the things that have happened in my life and now for my lack of faith. We don't argue anymore, because I avoid conflict at all cost. But, we also have no affection, even though I have begged for it continuously and tried to explain how it made me feel to not be wanted by her.

Earlier this year, I was in the midst of a breakdown over the Christmas eve death (by overdose) of my little cousin, who was basically my little brother growing up. I was dying for affection, begging for affection, and being denied because she didn't feel loved by me. So, I am ashamed to admit that I spent the majority of the first part of this year being mostly intoxicated, taking extreme personal risks, and basically trying to sabotage myself.

And then, by accident, I met someone. We met online at first. After realizing there was chemistry, we decided to meet in person. It was supposed to a one time, strictly physical thing. She was also married and essentially looking for exactly the same thing, though her circumstances, it turns out, were much more dire than mine. Both of us were headed down a path of self-destruction. We were just going to crash into each other for a moment along the way.

The instant our eyes met, I knew things weren't going to go the way I'd planned. I saw in her eyes the same nerves and anxiety I felt. I saw exactly the same desire for release, the same craving for affection, the same fear of rejection, the same need to be wanted. Those things I expected. However, I also saw the same hidden pain just below the surface that I also keep hidden from the world. I saw the smile in her eyes that was barely veiling the look of a person that had experienced things that people should never have to experience.

From a physical standpoint, things were beyond amazing, like, 8 hours worth of ridiculously amazing amazingness. Though, I admit that as far as I know that could be normal in these sorts of scenarios. But, as we talked we realized that we had so many things in common. Not just our current circumstances, but significant life events that we had both experienced as well as just general interests, and things we like/dislike. I found out she is also an atheist, and also recovering from a strict religious upbringing. It is actually sort of serendipitous (and also a bit creepy), really, how much alike we are. It was terrible. And I fell madly in love with her. I tried to deny it. I told her goodbye. But I couldn't go an hour without contacting her again.

I waited a month before telling my wife. It was the hardest decision of my life.

My wife continues to beg for me to come back saying she would change, she started texting me pictures of herself and trying to flirt with me, which she has NEVER done before. She promises not to try to control me or manipulate me anymore. And, she finally admitted to a fling she had a few years ago. I knew about it but never confronted her about it. Honestly, I think that is the point that my heart was broken and I began to give up on being loved by her. Even so, I can't help but wonder sometimes what the hell I am doing to myself and to my family. I want to believe these things but...

Even in the midst of making promises to not try to control me, she has been secretly calling, emailing and texting MY family members. She outed me as an atheist to them, which completely broke my 80 year old grandmother's heart. She is telling them that the devil has a hold of me and encouraging them to pray for me and to talk to me about my relationship with god. All this while telling me during counseling that she respects my right to believe or not to believe and that it is not a big deal to her.

So, last week, after months of counseling with my wife, I filed for divorce.

I look like the asshole that is having a mid-life crisis and is walking away from god, and my wife after 18 years of marriage. She is taking the "moral highroad" and acting like the contrite and loving victim. She is happy to tell everyone about my infidelity, which I have been open about myself. But she is careful to avoid mentioning any of the part she has played in everything. And, other than here, and to my dad, I have avoided airing any of her dirty laundry.

I know I should not have gotten involved with someone before I left. But I just want to be respected, and to have the opportunity to love and be loved. I want to be happy without having to be someone that I am not and I want to be with someone that I love exactly as they are, not who they could be if they just changed a few things. I want to be understood by someone that I understand.

People are telling me and my "paramour" (who I call my angel) that what we have is only a temporary infatuation (some have used the term limerence), that if only we got right with god we would both see the err of our ways, and that we should stop seeing each other immediately and try to reconcile with our spouses. Even those who know the details of my angel's relationship with her husband (which was very, very unhealthy) are, because of their religious beliefs, encouraging her to go back to him and get to get counseling. Because of their overtly religious bias, I just can't accept their advice. I also readily recognize my own bias in the matter. But, I have examined every emotion I have felt and all the circumstances leading up to the decision I have made. While I could be wrong about my feelings for my angel (though I do NOT have any doubts, personally) I firmly believe that moving on is the right thing to do for me, my current spouse, and my family. The relationship my wife and I have had is so quietly toxic, and so devoid of affection, I am afraid that my daughters will grow up thinking that that is how a normal relationship functions. Whether they are on the controlling end or the being controlled end, I do not want that to be their model for a relationship.

How do I deal with this situation while simultaneously being outed as an atheist to my family? It is hard to explain to them how I feel without being perceived as attacking their own religious beliefs. And I am so much happier with my angel. I know it is new love, but does that mean it isn't real love?

I have an answer which on the surface may seem trite. I assure you it is not.

Fuck them!

Live your life and be happy.

Good luck mate. Dale.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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01-06-2016, 10:47 PM
RE: Divorce stuff
Hug Hug In my experience with a controlling and manipulative spouse... they do not change. My ex made lots of promises and even started doing a lot of things different shortly before I walked out, but it was only because I'd said I was done and that it was over. In my opinion, people can change but often don't.

Anyway, I wish you all the best of luck with your new lady! I also would advise to take things slowly in that regard. It seems to have worked well for Rev and I (and our relationship also began right around the time I was making plans to leave my ex) so far. Heart

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02-06-2016, 09:43 AM
RE: Divorce stuff
That was really heavy TB and if it feels heavy to us, the weight on you must have been overwhelming. If one of us, had written what you wrote, you would have come to the conclusion that whoever wrote that was miserable and in a miserable loveless relationship with no hope of that changing. You would have provably said "leave the loveless wife". I am happy for you that you did have the affair, because without it, it seems to me you would still be in the the same miserable marriage. You've been through a lot, so give yourself a break. As atheists, we believe this is the only life we have, so I hope the next stage of your life is much more rewarding and happy.
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02-06-2016, 11:24 AM
RE: Divorce stuff
I can't offer you any more sage advice than the other guys already have TurkeyBurner, but I'd just like to commend you on posting such an open an honest account of your marriage and divorce, and your new relationship. I know it must've taken a lot of courage to talk about this publicly, but I hope you're feeling somewhat better having got it off your chest, so to speak. Having been divorced myself (more than 30 years ago) I can empathise with you, and reassure you that things will get better. Maybe not tomorrow, or next month, but ultimately, it's guaranteed.

Hang in there mate. Smile

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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02-06-2016, 02:44 PM
RE: Divorce stuff
(01-06-2016 11:19 AM)TurkeyBurner Wrote:  So, my life is in the blender right now.
It's a tangled mess. In my opinion you would benefit first from untangling the mess before you can sort your life out.

(01-06-2016 11:19 AM)TurkeyBurner Wrote:  She has had serious control issues from the very beginning.
In my experience, which is limited BTW, I think most relationships have a tussle with regards to control.
It is hard to find a balance for both people within the relationship. And in my perception this tussle occurs early on and then certain shifts occur during the relationship too.
In my unqualified opinion, the person who tries too hard to be in a relationship loses this tussle. They give control to their partner because they fear to risk upsetting or losing their partner. In may not necessarily be the case that the partner is too controlling, but they tend to take what they are given.
I don't actually think that the person in control wants to control (some do, but I feel most don't). I have seen it where the person in control losses some respect for their partner due to the control that their partner gives them. This puts a great deal of responsibility onto the partner and puts the controlled person into a (somewhat) dependant child like position.

So, without knowing you, TurkeyBurner, I suspect that YOU might be part of the problem and that you might find in any new relationship that you fall into the same position where your partner appears to be controlling.
However, having your life experiences, having become older, wiser, more self assured and less likely to bend, you may naturally avoid this trap going forward.
The question is, Can you turn around your current relationship (your marriage) or is it beyond repair?
ONLY once you have decided on this point THEN you can consider whether you want to get involved in a relationship with this new lady "who I call my angel". (Well, you seemed to have skipped making the decision on the marriage and jumped right into a new relationship, which is another knot in your tangled mess and which is what others will make moral judgement on).
(01-06-2016 11:19 AM)TurkeyBurner Wrote:  She pities me for the things that have happened in my life and now for my lack of faith. We don't argue anymore, because I avoid conflict at all cost.
I think, if you were to give your marriage another try, you will need to grow a set of balls. You will need to take controll of your life, you will need to set boundaries on what control your wife has over you. You need to have arguments, you need to move towards a position of caring about your future with this woman (assuming that is possible). If you are to make a go of your current marriage you need to say goodbye to your "angel" and you need to mean it. Even if things don't eventually work out for your wife, you need to have said goodbye so finally to your "angel" that it won't be possible for you to immediately hook up, it might never be possible for you to hook back up as you had choosen to reject her for your wife.
If you are not willing to say goodbye to your angel to this degree of finality then you are not going to be giving your wife a realistic chance.

My retorical question to you.
What are the reasons you would be willing to lose your angel in order to give your wife a chance? Are there kids involved? Are you worried about your reputation? do you imagine that it is the "right" thing to do?

(01-06-2016 11:19 AM)TurkeyBurner Wrote:  But, we also have no affection, even though I have begged for it continuously and tried to explain how it made me feel to not be wanted by her.
You cannot gain affection by begging for it. To gain affection from someone you need to earn their love, earn their respect, you need to win them over and make them care about you. It seems both of you are in this same boat.
(01-06-2016 11:19 AM)TurkeyBurner Wrote:  I was dying for affection, begging for affection, and being denied because she didn't feel loved by me.
Yep, she is not feeling loved so how can she offer love to you? You can't expect her to, you can't beg for it, or demand it. You need to work to earn it.
(01-06-2016 11:19 AM)TurkeyBurner Wrote:  So, I am ashamed to admit that I spent the majority of the first part of this year being mostly intoxicated, taking extreme personal risks, and basically trying to sabotage myself.
Yep, this won't win her over.
(01-06-2016 11:19 AM)TurkeyBurner Wrote:  How do I deal with this situation while simultaneously being outed as an atheist to my family? It is hard to explain to them how I feel without being perceived as attacking their own religious beliefs. And I am so much happier with my angel. I know it is new love, but does that mean it isn't real love?
It's probably about time you came out as an atheist. You are an adult, you need to live your own life rather than live a lie. People that care about you don't like being lied to by you. Perhaps just come clean. You can't control their reaction, but you need to live your life as you.

Don't worry about whether the new relationship is real love or not. First make the decision as to whether you want to leave your current wife. Let's say you didn't have another woman in waiting, is it better to be alone or be with your current wife?
If it is better to be alone then it doesn't matter if your new relationship works out or not. Whatever will happen will happen. But I personally think it isn't a matter of weighing up one woman for another.
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