Divorce stuff
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02-06-2016, 03:45 PM
RE: Divorce stuff
First off, this is a great deconstruction of the situation. Your comments are so eerily similar to those of my therapist that I'd almost accuse you of collaborating with him.

(02-06-2016 02:44 PM)Stevil Wrote:  the person who tries too hard to be in a relationship loses this tussle...
...I suspect that YOU might be part of the problem...
Absolutely true. However, there is a great deal of "family or origin" stuff going on here. Essentially, she is modeling her own mother's behavior. There are EXTREME control issues there.

Quote:However, having your life experiences, having become older, wiser, more self assured and less likely to bend, you may naturally avoid this trap going forward.
Never again, my friend.

Quote:The question is, Can you turn around your current relationship (your marriage) or is it beyond repair?
Even before making the mistake of being unfaithful, I came to the conclusion that I would never be respected by wife.

Quote:Well, you seemed to have skipped making the decision on the marriage and jumped right into a new relationship, which is another knot in your tangled mess and which is what others will make moral judgement on
No, I made the decision a while back. But I hadn't acted on it.

Quote:I think, if you were to give your marriage another try, you will need to grow a set of balls. You will need to take controll of your life, you will need to set boundaries on what control your wife has over you. You need to have arguments,
Indeed! I did grow a set of balls. And I also learned to be assertive. Arguments are generally not constructive with her as she becomes very aggressive and manipulative. Arguments go in circles and never resolve until I apologize, regardless of the root of the argument. I stopped apologizing unless I meant it. I refused to "fight" with her and only engaged in rational arguments. She would simply leave or give me the silent treatment or cry. She once tried to jump out of the car while was going down the road because she was angry and wanted me to stop so she could get out of the car. I refused saying that we couldn't walk away we needed to talk through our problems. So she opened the door and started to jump out at about 40 MPH going down the road. I had to grab her by the shirt (and some of her hair totally by accident) to keep her in the car until I could get stopped and let her out. My girls were in the back seat and were mortified. I refuse to do that. So, I just stopped.

Quote:What are the reasons you would be willing to lose your angel in order to give your wife a chance?
At this point, there are none.

Quote:Are there kids involved?
Yes. And I want them to see what a healthy relationship looks like

Quote:Are you worried about your reputation? do you imagine that it is the "right" thing to do?
Fuck my reputation. I think what is "right" all depends on which way you are facing.

Quote:You cannot gain affection by begging for it. To gain affection from someone you need to earn their love, earn their respect, you need to win them over and make them care about you. It seems both of you are in this same boat.
Agreed. But I was trying and it was never enough. In fact, she was often like an emotional black hole. The more I poured into her, the more she wanted. She craved affirmation and wanted me with her all the time. I gave up ALL activities other than work. I gave up ALL my friends. I spent ALL my time with her. I wrote her letters, and songs, and poetry. I constantly affirmed her. Anything I did around the house was negated because she wanted me to do the other thing. I never could give her enough to "earn" her love.

And that is a two-way street. If had I felt like she were also trying even just a little bit, I wouldn't be in this situation.

Quote:Yep, she is not feeling loved so how can she offer love to you? You can't expect her to, you can't beg for it, or demand it. You need to work to earn it.
Emotional. black. hole.

Quote:Yep, this won't win her over.
One would think that the death of a close family member would earn me at least a decent hug of support. It's not like I was asking for a blow job. I just wanted her to put her damn arm around me and tell me it would be ok and that she loved me. But even prior to that, when I constantly do the things she says she needs to make her feel loved only to be denied what I need because I haven't done enough. That is humiliating. And I have had enough humiliation. I have done way more than my fair share of giving. And only when I leave did she decide to give a fuck.

Quote:It's probably about time you came out as an atheist. You are an adult, you need to live your own life rather than live a lie. People that care about you don't like being lied to by you.
Perhaps just come clean. You can't control their reaction, but you need to live your life as you.
Totally agree. The thing is that I would not have told my grandmother. Nothing good will come of that. That was a straight up attempt to manipulate my emotions.

Quote:First make the decision as to whether you want to leave your current wife.
Already done.

Quote:Let's say you didn't have another woman in waiting, is it better to be alone or be with your current wife?
If it is better to be alone then it doesn't matter if your new relationship works out or not. Whatever will happen will happen.
I would rather be alone than with my current wife.

I just wanted to let you know that I love you even though you aren't naked right now. Heart
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02-06-2016, 04:07 PM
RE: Divorce stuff
Hiya TB. Sorry you're having such rough miles right now, you seem like a decent guy and it's a shame your marriage hit the shitter.

I can't say that I like the cheating bit, but it's not my life and I won't sit in judgement of another person. I've never cheated on a lover, but in the last year of my relationship with my son's mother, I almost surely would have had the opportunity presented itself. I can certainly understand the difficulty of being committed in a relationship where the other person is not fulfilling your needs.

As for how to deal with the family learning your atheism, and your ex- taking the high road despite her own actions: the cat's out of the bag, own your opinions and (lack of) beliefs. Those who accept you accept you, and those who don't, to hell with them. You're wise not to run her down publicly -- it makes you look like a cheeseball, and makes her points look worthy of addressing. Carry yourself with dignity and let everyone make up their own minds about what kind of person you are ... no doubt a decent guy, flaws and all.

Best wishes going forward, brotha. Life is too short to be unhappy.
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02-06-2016, 05:34 PM
RE: Divorce stuff
(02-06-2016 03:45 PM)TurkeyBurner Wrote:  I wrote her letters, and songs, and poetry. I constantly affirmed her. Anything I did around the house was negated because she wanted me to do the other thing. I never could give her enough to "earn" her love.

Damn dude. You're a dreamboat. Sounds like she doesn't deserve you.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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02-06-2016, 05:35 PM
RE: Divorce stuff
Well that sucks.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-06-2016, 02:29 AM
RE: Divorce stuff
Sucks to have to go through this. Do what makes you happy, excellent point about wanting your children to see what a healthy, happy relationship should look like.

I wish more people cared about the earth as much as they care about who they believe created it
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03-06-2016, 07:52 AM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2016 09:40 AM by Aliza.)
RE: Divorce stuff
I think it’s obvious that marital infidelity is not exactly the ideal way to carry oneself, but the damage is done. It’s time to move on from that. You’re unhappy in this marriage and your gut instinct is that it cannot be repaired. It sounds like you’ve been unhappy for a while, so listen to your inner voice and leave. If your angel isn’t “the one” then find someone who is. Make yourself happy again while you’re still young enough to start over.

But the infidelity is a factor in this divorce so I’d retain a lawyer immediately to find out how that might impact you financially. Some states are no fault, others are fault-based. You’ve been with her for 18 years, so this is clearly not a short-term marriage. You may be on the hook for some steep alimony.

I hate to sound cold, but your objective should be to walk out of this marriage with as many assets as you can. If you plan to build a future with your new lady, you’ll need the financial stability to support her and any future children that your new union may bring.

Your wife is now disclosing your affair to family members, which is incredibly manipulative. I would seriously consider disclosing her affair in return –as tastefully as possible, and perhaps in a manner of self-defense. It’s going to come out in the divorce anyway, it might be better if people understand the full story upfront. You can’t afford to have people polarized against you. I hate to say it, but don’t be a gentleman about this. There is money and child custody on the line here, and your fault in this is probably not as great as you may be perceiving. Your family and friends may not offer you the support and good advice that they should if they believe you have just destroyed this innocent waif’s life and left her destitute. Their undue negativity toward you may obstruct your sight line and cause you to give up more than you should. You must defend yourself right now.

This is a terribly unfortunate situation, but you responded to circumstances that were presented to you. You had an adulterous wife whose affair was not disclosed to you immediately but that you suspected very strongly. I would venture to guess that her behavior caused her to pull back emotionally and leave you paranoid and insecure about your relationship. She was extremely dissatisfied about aspects of your personality (atheism), and tirelessly worked to change this. She was dissatisfied with you.

This was your first affair and you developed feelings and an emotional relationship with this woman prior to the carrying out the affair. It is natural that you would seek out love and acceptance because isn’t that what we all want? It’s a need that wasn’t being addressed at home, so when it fell on your lap, you took advantage of the opportunity. You responded the way you did because your wife was not meeting your needs; not because you’re a cheating bastard who just likes to get some on the side.
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03-06-2016, 08:56 AM
RE: Divorce stuff
(03-06-2016 07:52 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I think it’s obvious that marital infidelity is not exactly the ideal way to carry oneself, but the damage is done. It’s time to move on from that. You’re unhappy in this marriage and your gut instinct is that it cannot be repaired. It sounds like you’ve been unhappy for a while, so listen to your inner voice and leave. If your angel isn’t “the one” then find someone who is. Make yourself happy again while you’re still young enough to start over.

But the infidelity is a factor in this divorce so I’d retain a lawyer immediately to find out how that might impact you financially. Some states are no fault, others are fault-based. You’ve been with her for 18 years, so this is clearly not a short-term marriage. You may be on the hook for some steep alimony.

I hate to sound cold, but your objective should be to walk out of this marriage with as many assets as you can. If you plan to build a future with your new lady, you’ll need the financial stability to support her and any future children that your new union may bring.

Your wife is now disclosing your affair to family members, which is incredibly manipulative. I would seriously consider disclosing her affair in return –as tastefully as possible, and perhaps in a manner of self-defense. It’s going to come out in the divorce anyway, it might be better if people understand the full story upfront. You can’t afford to have people polarized against you. I hate to say it, but don’t be a gentleman about this. There is money and child custody is on the line here, and your fault in this is probably not as great as you may be perceiving. Your family and friends may not offer you the support and good advice that they should if they believe you have just destroyed this innocent waif’s life and left her destitute. Their undue negativity toward you may obstruct your sight line and cause you to give up more than you should. You must defend yourself right now.

This is a terribly unfortunate situation, but you responded to circumstances that were presented to you. You had an adulterous wife whose affair was not disclosed to you immediately but that you suspected very strongly. I would venture to guess that her behavior caused her to pull back emotionally and leave you paranoid and insecure about your relationship. She was extremely dissatisfied about aspects of your personality (atheism), and tirelessly worked to change this. She was dissatisfied with you.

This was your first affair and you developed feelings and an emotional relationship with this woman prior to the carrying out the affair. It is natural that you would seek out love and acceptance because isn’t that what we all want? It’s a need that wasn’t being addressed at home, so when it fell on your lap, you took advantage of the opportunity. You responded the way you did because your wife was not meeting your needs; not because you’re a cheating bastard who just likes to get some on the side.

I was going to add a reply of my own until I read this one. Basically it is exactly what I was going to say.Thumbsup

Turkey,
You seem like a good dude. My own divorce taught me to not be afraid to fight for myself because nobody else is going to. If that means outing her affair and her behavior so be it.

Because I wasn't afraid to fight I ended up with almost full custody of my kids. And now, four years later my life couldn't be better.
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03-06-2016, 02:49 PM
RE: Divorce stuff
(03-06-2016 07:52 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I hate to sound cold, but your objective should be to walk out of this marriage with as many assets as you can.
Personally if it were me in that situation then I would deem that my objective would be to sort out what is best for my children.

If the mother is dedicated to the children and is frugal, then I wouldn't be too worried about her getting money and assets.

I would actually try to have an amicable split, rather than fight over money or fight over who was the one to blame. An amicable split means the children aren't torn inbetween, it also means you may have parties and even holidays with both parents there.

(03-06-2016 07:52 AM)Aliza Wrote:  If you plan to build a future with your new lady, you’ll need the financial stability to support her
I wouldn't assume she needs supporting

(03-06-2016 07:52 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Your wife is now disclosing your affair to family members, which is incredibly manipulative.
If you have been having an affair I think it is only natural for your partner to be upset and let others know. It's not her secret.


(03-06-2016 07:52 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I would seriously consider disclosing her affair in return –as tastefully as possible, and perhaps in a manner of self-defense. It’s going to come out in the divorce anyway, it might be better if people understand the full story upfront.
I don't understand why these matters would be discussed in a divorce proceeding.
All that the govt need to know is that both of you want to seperate and how to split the money. Splitting the money ought to be based on a fairness of 50/50 split for family assets taking in mind what is best for the children.
Whether someone has an affair or not isn't a legal matter.

It's not upto the govt to decide who was at fault, this will just cause more fights, tension and animosity. Sounds like a US election campaign.
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03-06-2016, 03:56 PM
RE: Divorce stuff
(03-06-2016 02:49 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(03-06-2016 07:52 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I hate to sound cold, but your objective should be to walk out of this marriage with as many assets as you can.
Personally if it were me in that situation then I would deem that my objective would be to sort out what is best for my children.

If the mother is dedicated to the children and is frugal, then I wouldn't be too worried about her getting money and assets.

I would actually try to have an amicable split, rather than fight over money or fight over who was the one to blame. An amicable split means the children aren't torn inbetween, it also means you may have parties and even holidays with both parents there.

(03-06-2016 07:52 AM)Aliza Wrote:  If you plan to build a future with your new lady, you’ll need the financial stability to support her
I wouldn't assume she needs supporting

(03-06-2016 07:52 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Your wife is now disclosing your affair to family members, which is incredibly manipulative.
If you have been having an affair I think it is only natural for your partner to be upset and let others know. It's not her secret.


(03-06-2016 07:52 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I would seriously consider disclosing her affair in return –as tastefully as possible, and perhaps in a manner of self-defense. It’s going to come out in the divorce anyway, it might be better if people understand the full story upfront.
I don't understand why these matters would be discussed in a divorce proceeding.
All that the govt need to know is that both of you want to seperate and how to split the money. Splitting the money ought to be based on a fairness of 50/50 split for family assets taking in mind what is best for the children.
Whether someone has an affair or not isn't a legal matter.

It's not upto the govt to decide who was at fault, this will just cause more fights, tension and animosity. Sounds like a US election campaign.

Yeah. For now we are going the mediated route and are in agreement on splitting everything 50/50. There is no disagreement over custody. My primary concern is for making sure my little girls come out of this as unscathed as possible. If this changes and she becomes unreasonable or tries to use assets or custody as leverage, then I am sure that circumstantial details of our marriage will become much more important.

I just wanted to let you know that I love you even though you aren't naked right now. Heart
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05-06-2016, 10:43 AM
RE: Divorce stuff
(01-06-2016 11:19 AM)TurkeyBurner Wrote:  I gave up so much of myself to keep her happy for fear of losing her. I had no idea what I was doing. Our early relationship was very one sided and the early years of our marriage was pretty rocky. We've been married for 18 years now. For the last several years, our relationship has been more like that of a parent-child, or at best roommates that occasionally had (totally uninspired) sex. She pities me for the things that have happened in my life and now for my lack of faith. We don't argue anymore, because I avoid conflict at all cost. But, we also have no affection, even though I have begged for it continuously and tried to explain how it made me feel to not be wanted by her.

For me the story ended right at this part. This should never ever ever happen. If you give up your self or your happiness to make somebody else happy, its no longer a relationship, its a complete and utter disaster. I am very sorry you are going such rough time, and only thing I can suggest is that take your time and focus on your self. After 18 years, I think you deserve a break from a one sided relationship. If she can't accept and love you for who you are, then simply she doesn't deserve you. I don't think anything else should matter.

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