Do 3000 lives warrant this kind of change?
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05-02-2011, 04:34 PM
RE: Do 3000 lives warrant this kind of change?
(05-02-2011 12:35 PM)BnW Wrote:  I think Iraq is a little more complicated then people try to make it to be in terms of its legality and justification, but even if you can convince yourself that it was a legal use of force, it was still handled horribly, criminally in fact.

Well , the "New world order" Bush's daddy described as far as I know means no preemptive strikes - which was exactly what the Iraq war was.Don't get me wrong , it's great Sadam's gone but thousands of civilians and US/NATO soldiers dead is unacceptable.

(05-02-2011 12:35 PM)BnW Wrote:  Kind of interesting that now ordinary people in some of this countries may accomplish what war and terrorism could not.

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean ? Do you mean a counter-terrorism culture ?

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06-02-2011, 11:51 AM
RE: Do 3000 lives warrant this kind of change?
No, I mean that neither the western democracies nor the extremists really like these secularized dictators that rule the Middle East (although both sides have allied themselves with some of these thugs). Al Queda's view is only extreme violence can topple them. The west's view is not dramatically different. And yet, the people of Tunisia were able to over throw their corrupt leadership with blowing people up or waging war and the Egyptians are looking to be doing the same.

Ordinary people exercising basic human liberties are having more of an impact then all the suicide bombs or guided missiles managed to have, and in a fraction of the time. It's amazing.

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06-02-2011, 01:03 PM
RE: Do 3000 lives warrant this kind of change?
Granted - you defend yourself with a gun and your rights with democracy.(and peaceful protest)
If I'm not mistaken peaceful protest ended the segregation in South Africa.So yeah , it's a much more potent force than violence.

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08-02-2011, 09:55 AM
 
RE: Do 3000 lives warrant this kind of change?
(05-02-2011 04:34 PM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  
(05-02-2011 12:35 PM)BnW Wrote:  I think Iraq is a little more complicated then people try to make it to be in terms of its legality and justification, but even if you can convince yourself that it was a legal use of force, it was still handled horribly, criminally in fact.

Well , the "New world order" Bush's daddy described as far as I know means no preemptive strikes - which was exactly what the Iraq war was.Don't get me wrong , it's great Sadam's gone but thousands of civilians and US/NATO soldiers dead is unacceptable.

We (THE US) didn't have any issues with it when Saddam was playing ball with the US, and doing what the US wanted him to do. When Saddam, decided not to be the US patsy, and start his own thing (Kuwait), then we started to not like him so much. And the attempted assassination of Bush SR, sparked ole Bush2, to try and obtain revenge, along with helping his friends out with a GOV contract or two. In other words, Iraq is was and always will be a farce. I would suggest you and everyone else read Richard Clarke's book "Against All Enemies: Inside America's war on Terror". It gives a nice little insight to prior, on and post 9/11 events and terrorism until 2003. (The book was written then, so hard to go past then Smile )

I get what BnW is stating about the ordinary people, sadly this is why it is such a treat to the US. If the new leader doesn't want to be our Patsy in the middle east, we have to negotiate, and act civil, we don't do civil very well on the grand stage. Hell we can't even do it in our own elections.
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