Do Atheist need to be remided to be moral?
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24-08-2016, 12:20 PM
RE: Do Atheist need to be remided to be moral?
I didn't watch the video and I'll tell you why, I watched a documentary on Netflix about Dan Ariely's research called "(Dis)Honesty The Truth About Lies" and it went into much more details about his findings and mostly about lying and cheating.

As far as religion goes I can only really speak from my own experiences since I'm not a sociologist but I have found many Xians are willing to break rules and commit minor crimes, lie, steal, etc. because they know they will be forgiven or they have God's favor. That is a powerful feeling, imagine the ruler of the universe knows you, loves you and has your back, does any small crime you commit during your life matter? Of course not, just repent and ask for forgiveness and you're good to go. Even murderers, pedophiles and other assorted horrible awful people have proudly proclaimed Jesus loves them and forgives them.

As an atheist I've always felt more of an imperative to do the right thing as I see it and to make good choices, if not to prove that atheists are moral and in some cases more moral than theists are. I remind myself every day it's important to be a good person, I'm accountable to other people and myself but mostly other people. If I only cared about myself I wouldn't mind grabbing purses and wallets of strangers and stealing their money, hey I want that money right? Well no, it's not mine, I wouldn't want anyone to steal from me, and I don't want to violate another person's body or possessions, it's just that simple.

Of course a discussion on morality is complex but this whole idea that people need to be "reminded" to be moral isn't true in a big picture sense, only in small isolated situations, if a religious person is told it's morally right to kick someone out of your store because they are gay is that truly moral? No it isn't, it's discriminatory and wrong and as an atheist I don't need to be reminded of that, I just know it. Most people as they age develop morally and it's hard wired into us, I prefer secular morality for this reason alone, I don't need some other human deciphering an old book to tell me how to be moral, I already know.

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24-08-2016, 12:25 PM
RE: Do Atheist need to be remided to be moral?
Actually I am not sure at all that those who attend church services are "reminded to be moral". They almost never (if ever) list or say the 10 Commandments. They do some singing and hootin' and reciting about some things they believe, and pretend to "play Last Supper", get to congratulate themselves on how much better they are than those who don't attend, but I really don't think there's ever much "reminding to be moral" going on. So this entire ball of wax is a pile of BS.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-08-2016, 01:05 PM (This post was last modified: 24-08-2016 01:21 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: Do Atheist need to be remided to be moral?
Haven't read the thread beyond the OP, so if I retrod some old ground, my appologies.

(24-08-2016 03:26 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Do Atheists need to be reminded to be moral? Well if they are like everyone else then they just might.

http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_on_o...moral_code

Religious people get reminded in church to be moral. Where do atheist's get their reminders? Please don't bother responding to the thread if you aren't going to watch the tedtalk.

.... well, if you watched the talk yourself, you heard a host of examples. (I'd assume you did watch it, since you posted it and you said you only wanted replies from people who'd watched it, but then, why don't you know the answer to your own question?) Honor codes. Peer pressure and group behavior and group identity. Personal self-image. A degree of empathy for the suffering of others.

It's not hard to imagine other circumstances not explicitly named in the talk. Being called on bad behavior, or seeing someone else called out. Being thanked for good behavior. Seeing others condemned or lauded for their behavior. Meditating on how we impact the world, or how much or how little we care about some arbitrary score on a test or how important money is to us. Reading philosophy or watching a movie with even the slightest hint of a moral message.

What I find intriguing is your assertion that religious people get their reminders in church. Surely they ALSO get reminders from honor codes and peer groups and so forth, yet this merits no mention from you. More interestingly, those reminders are more frequent than the reminders given in church on a weekly basis. (Or in the case of most Christians, considerably less than weekly.)

And I also have to ask, just what kind of morality are you being reminded of in church? It seems to depend, not just on the religion and not even on just the denomination, but the individual delivering the reminder. Both of the following clips are preachers reminding us of moral codes, but the moral codes they are reminding us of are strikingly different. To whatever extent there is a singular objective morality, it seems to me that one of these people is reminding us if it, and the other is not.








Both of these people are speaking from a basis of Christianity, but their morality is very, very different. If it comes down to the pastor, rather than the religion, then it isn't really the religion reminding us, is it?

EDITS: Fixed a broken link, and spoiler-buttoned the videos to keep them from ruining the entire page's spacing.
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24-08-2016, 01:13 PM
RE: Do Atheist need to be remided to be moral?
(24-08-2016 12:25 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Actually I am not sure at all that those who attend church services are "reminded to be moral". They almost never (if ever) list or say the 10 Commandments. They do some singing and hootin' and reciting about some things they believe, and pretend to "play Last Supper", get to congratulate themselves on how much better they are than those who don't attend, but I really don't think there's ever much "reminding to be moral" going on. So this entire ball of wax is a pile of BS.

In fact, they're told that they're worthless sinners and there is nothing they can do to correct their condition. Then they're told that it's okay, because they'll automatically be forgiven for any and all of their transgressions.
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24-08-2016, 01:19 PM
RE: Do Atheist need to be remided to be moral?
(24-08-2016 04:19 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  If you watched the video, you would see that the results of the presenters experiments is that people(including atheists) cheat less when they are reminded to be moral. Assuming his results are valid, atheists, like everyone else should be reminded to be moral if collectively we want everyone to be more moral.

Maybe you are a special snow flake who needs not be reminded.....but I am skeptical. You've done nothing at all to demonstrate you are nothing more than an average forum shmuck.

I see. So then, to sum up, atheists are actually just like other people. Wow, shocker! Too profound! I gotta go ponder in some depth. Blink

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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24-08-2016, 01:35 PM
RE: Do Atheist need to be remided to be moral?
(24-08-2016 03:26 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Religious people get reminded in church to be moral. Where do atheist's get their reminders? Please don't bother responding to the thread if you aren't going to watch the tedtalk.
Morality is a pipe dream. There are no morals, no rights and wrongs.
There is no authority, no way to determine a set of objective rights, it's all just a matter of personal opinions.

The dark side of morality, the shunning, the shaming, the fighting wars for the sake of righteousness is not worth the idea of having a "moral" society.

Anyone that tries to tell you that you must be moral and supplies you with their set of morals, those people are trying to control you. They are not on your side. They are the "evil" wormtongue spewing garbage and making you a dependant zombie

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24-08-2016, 01:38 PM
RE: Do Atheist need to be remided to be moral?
(24-08-2016 01:13 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(24-08-2016 12:25 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Actually I am not sure at all that those who attend church services are "reminded to be moral". They almost never (if ever) list or say the 10 Commandments. They do some singing and hootin' and reciting about some things they believe, and pretend to "play Last Supper", get to congratulate themselves on how much better they are than those who don't attend, but I really don't think there's ever much "reminding to be moral" going on. So this entire ball of wax is a pile of BS.

In fact, they're told that they're worthless sinners and there is nothing they can do to correct their condition. Then they're told that it's okay, because they'll automatically be forgiven for any and all of their transgressions.
It's logical. We can't save ourselves. So Jesus did everything with his death. He is only asking blind obedience and money( for the pastors and priests) . So Hitler is in heaven right now. And the millions of good nonchristians people killed by the nazis are in hell. Yep . This makes perfect sense.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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24-08-2016, 03:01 PM
RE: Do Atheist need to be remided to be moral?
(24-08-2016 08:35 AM)izel Wrote:  I've always fucking hated this question. I would say the worst part of this question is that every time someone brings it up, they think they are the first person to ever bring this up and have completely proven god. Very annoying.

One of the conclusions of his experiments was that people in general will cheat less if reminded to be moral. Atheists have claimed they don't need religion to behave morally. Are they claiming they are special? Or do they get reminded to be moral from other sources. If so what are they?

This isn't an argument for God's existence or a claim that religious people are more moral than atheists.
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24-08-2016, 03:06 PM
RE: Do Atheist need to be remided to be moral?
(24-08-2016 03:01 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(24-08-2016 08:35 AM)izel Wrote:  I've always fucking hated this question. I would say the worst part of this question is that every time someone brings it up, they think they are the first person to ever bring this up and have completely proven god. Very annoying.

One of the conclusions of his experiments was that people in general will cheat less if reminded to be moral. Atheists have claimed they don't need religion to behave morally. Are they claiming they are special? Or do they get reminded to be moral from other sources. If so what are they?

This isn't an argument for God's existence or a claim that religious people are more moral than atheists.

(Re)read Reltzik's reply. The answer to your question was actually in the Ted talk you posted.
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24-08-2016, 03:24 PM
RE: Do Atheist need to be remided to be moral?
(24-08-2016 03:01 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Atheists have claimed they don't need religion to behave morally. Are they claiming they are special? Or do they get reminded to be moral from other sources. If so what are they?
Moral lessons are everywhere. Every idiot is trying to teach us a lesson about acceptable behaviour.

Just watch all these hero tv shows and movies where we have "good" guys and "bad" guys. Comic books, and news and newspaper articles, all dripping in the filth of morality.

It's very hard to avoid other people's opinions about what is moral or not. Many Christians in particular seem to feel the obligation to go around telling others what is morally right or wrong. They even want to implement their morals into law, to force it upon us all.
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