Do Christians REALLY believe what they say?
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09-08-2011, 07:39 PM
RE: Do Christians REALLY believe what they say?
(09-08-2011 10:03 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(09-08-2011 02:21 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Re " God wants us to ask for what we need and will sometimes change his actions in response to prayers" . How do you know what God wants? Exactly what evidence do you have for "his actions?" What evidence do you have that he will "change his actions" in response to prayer?
There are two sources for my belief. One is the Bible, where he commands us to ask him for what we need. The other is personal experience. I have received answers to my prayers and people who I know have had the same experience.
Hi Theophilus. I too have read in the Bible where "Jesus"commands you to ask God for what you need. mmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Have you ever wondered who wrote this, when and why? Have you ever wondered about whether you can trust that Jesus really said these words? Why don't you look into it? Have you looked into Ephesians yet?

I'm sure people reading this will be very interested to hear how God has answered your prayers. I have no reason not to believe you, so could you tell us what he said?
If he didn't actually talk to you, but just "did" something, could you tell us what it was and why you are so sure it was God who did it?
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11-08-2011, 09:31 AM (This post was last modified: 11-08-2011 10:03 AM by theophilus.)
RE: Do Christians REALLY believe what they say?
(09-08-2011 10:11 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Why would a loving god answer your prayers while ignoring the prayers of people who really need help? What makes your god think your prayers are more deserving of being answered than say a starving child?
I don't know how God decides which prayers to answer and he doesn't answer on the basis of what we deserve. If he did no one would have his prayers answered because we are all sinners and don't deserve anything good from God.

(09-08-2011 07:39 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I'm sure people reading this will be very interested to hear how God has answered your prayers. I have no reason not to believe you, so could you tell us what he said?
If he didn't actually talk to you, but just "did" something, could you tell us what it was and why you are so sure it was God who did it?
He has often helped me by answering when I asked him for things I need. The evidence that the answers were from God is simply the fact that answers have come too often for them to be the result of chance.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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11-08-2011, 09:58 AM
RE: Do Christians REALLY believe what they say?
(11-08-2011 09:31 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(09-08-2011 10:11 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Why would a loving god answer your prayers while ignoring the prayers of people who really need help? What makes your god think your prayers are more deserving of being answered than say a starving child?
I don't know how God decides which prayers to answer and he doesn't answer on the basis of what we deserve. If he did no one would have his prayers answered because we are all sinners and don't deserve anything good from God.

Yup, you go sing your "We're not worthy" song. Where I stand the world runs just fine without a god. Everything makes perfect sense without a god. All the messed up things on this planet make perfect sense if there isn't a god. So do the good things.

Prayer is a waste of time, and so is talking about prayer.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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11-08-2011, 11:38 AM
RE: Do Christians REALLY believe what they say?
(11-08-2011 09:31 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(09-08-2011 10:11 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Why would a loving god answer your prayers while ignoring the prayers of people who really need help? What makes your god think your prayers are more deserving of being answered than say a starving child?
I don't know how God decides which prayers to answer and he doesn't answer on the basis of what we deserve. If he did no one would have his prayers answered because we are all sinners and don't deserve anything good from God.

(09-08-2011 07:39 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I'm sure people reading this will be very interested to hear how God has answered your prayers. I have no reason not to believe you, so could you tell us what he said?
If he didn't actually talk to you, but just "did" something, could you tell us what it was and why you are so sure it was God who did it?
He has often helped me by answering when I asked him for things I need. The evidence that the answers were from God is simply the fact that answers have come too often for them to be the result of chance.

Do you really believe that your god truely is a kind loving being? Despite all the unanswered prayers all the people suffering children being abused people being raped and murdered no matter how many times they pray their prayers go unanswered. They still suffer in a way that neither you or I can possibly imagine. Why answer your prayers? when you need less help than those people. While ignoring the prayers of the people who it should be helping. It almost sounds like your god is a sadist it enjoys seeing the suffering of others no loving being would allow the prayers of a dieing child to go unheard. I hope you realise the being you pray to can be seen no other way than an evil genocidal monster who laughs at the suffering of others.

Behold the power of the force!
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11-08-2011, 11:20 PM
RE: Do Christians REALLY believe what they say?
(11-08-2011 09:31 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(09-08-2011 10:11 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Why would a loving god answer your prayers while ignoring the prayers of people who really need help? What makes your god think your prayers are more deserving of being answered than say a starving child?
I don't know how God decides which prayers to answer and he doesn't answer on the basis of what we deserve. If he did no one would have his prayers answered because we are all sinners and don't deserve anything good from God.

(09-08-2011 07:39 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I'm sure people reading this will be very interested to hear how God has answered your prayers. I have no reason not to believe you, so could you tell us what he said?
If he didn't actually talk to you, but just "did" something, could you tell us what it was and why you are so sure it was God who did it?
He has often helped me by answering when I asked him for things I need. The evidence that the answers were from God is simply the fact that answers have come too often for them to be the result of chance.

I'm still waiting to hear what god told you. Shit man, if god had spoken to me I'd seriously make it my business to tell everyone what he said. So spit it out....we're on the edge of our seats....WHAT THE FUCK DID HE SAY?????
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11-08-2011, 11:55 PM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2011 12:02 AM by DeepThought.)
RE: Do Christians REALLY believe what they say?
(11-08-2011 11:20 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I'm still waiting to hear what god told you. Shit man, if god had spoken to me I'd seriously make it my business to tell everyone what he said. So spit it out....we're on the edge of our seats....WHAT THE FUCK DID HE SAY?????

I'll make a prediction... God said something that he already knew himself. Something that could easily come from Internal Dialog/ego and be relabeled as God. I wouldn't be waiting on the edge of my seat. I'm waiting on the edge of disappointment.

It's equivalent to asking a hippie on acid if he discovered the enlightening truth of the world on one of his trips. "Tell us about your trip man!"
Sure the trip might give the hippie a different perspective on things but it doesn't have any bearing on reality. Visiting the DMT elves doesn't make DMT elves real even if multiple people experience a similar phenomenon.

Please show me i'm wrong. Show me that someone claiming to hear from god actually learned something new and useful that no person could discover by themselves. Also that there is proof - not some con-artist story.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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12-08-2011, 01:49 AM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2011 01:55 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Do Christians REALLY believe what they say?
(11-08-2011 11:55 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(11-08-2011 11:20 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I'm still waiting to hear what god told you. Shit man, if god had spoken to me I'd seriously make it my business to tell everyone what he said. So spit it out....we're on the edge of our seats....WHAT THE FUCK DID HE SAY?????

I'll make a prediction... God said something that he already knew himself. Something that could easily come from Internal Dialog/ego and be relabeled as God. I wouldn't be waiting on the edge of my seat. I'm waiting on the edge of disappointment.

It's equivalent to asking a hippie on acid if he discovered the enlightening truth of the world on one of his trips. "Tell us about your trip man!"
Sure the trip might give the hippie a different perspective on things but it doesn't have any bearing on reality. Visiting the DMT elves doesn't make DMT elves real even if multiple people experience a similar phenomenon.

Please show me i'm wrong. Show me that someone claiming to hear from god actually learned something new and useful that no person could discover by themselves. Also that there is proof - not some con-artist story.

Mate...I'm with you 100%. I'm just trying to help our friend(s) realise the stupidity of their own argument. People who talk to god are only talking to themselves. Spend some time on a psychiatric ward or in an emergency department and you frequently encounter people talking to "god", or imagining they are themselves god. (That is not to say people who "pray" are psychiatrically unwell, just mildly deluded).

Theophilus or HBAF have never genuinely been told anything by "god" that wasn't already part of their own unconscious minds. They also "believe" because there is some secondary gain to be derived from that belief. It may be companionship, or hope, or power, or prestige, money or even sex. Acknowledging the irrationality of their belief may mean they lose these benefits. Take HBAF for example. He gets satisfaction out of rambling...quoting the bible, making it mean whatever he chooses, which is how he promotes his identity; it wouldn't surprise me if he is some sort of authority in a church...take that away from him and I'm guessing he'd lose his social status. So he's not interested in a rational argument as that challenges his sense of self.

The tragedy is that innocent, well meaning people get caught up in the circus, and many of them are miserable, paranoid and anxious as a result. Then there is the indoctrination of children....that, my friends, is the greatest sin of all.

There are, however, people like HBAF and Theophilus who have been able to let go of God to discover something MUCH MUCH better...TRUTH. It is my hope to help people do that. Truth is a lot healthier, less expensive and ultimately a lot more rewarding than god.
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12-08-2011, 03:07 AM
RE: Do Christians REALLY believe what they say?
(11-08-2011 11:55 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(11-08-2011 11:20 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I'm still waiting to hear what god told you. Shit man, if god had spoken to me I'd seriously make it my business to tell everyone what he said. So spit it out....we're on the edge of our seats....WHAT THE FUCK DID HE SAY?????

I'll make a prediction... God said something that he already knew himself. Something that could easily come from Internal Dialog/ego and be relabeled as God. I wouldn't be waiting on the edge of my seat. I'm waiting on the edge of disappointment.

It's equivalent to asking a hippie on acid if he discovered the enlightening truth of the world on one of his trips. "Tell us about your trip man!"
Sure the trip might give the hippie a different perspective on things but it doesn't have any bearing on reality. Visiting the DMT elves doesn't make DMT elves real even if multiple people experience a similar phenomenon.

Please show me i'm wrong. Show me that someone claiming to hear from god actually learned something new and useful that no person could discover by themselves. Also that there is proof - not some con-artist story.

Funny how god works the same way as psychics. Telling you stuff you already knew. Next itl be using taroit cards or a crystal ball to answer the deluded.

Behold the power of the force!
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12-08-2011, 04:04 AM
RE: Do Christians REALLY believe what they say?
(12-08-2011 03:07 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  
(11-08-2011 11:55 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(11-08-2011 11:20 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I'm still waiting to hear what god told you. Shit man, if god had spoken to me I'd seriously make it my business to tell everyone what he said. So spit it out....we're on the edge of our seats....WHAT THE FUCK DID HE SAY?????

I'll make a prediction... God said something that he already knew himself. Something that could easily come from Internal Dialog/ego and be relabeled as God. I wouldn't be waiting on the edge of my seat. I'm waiting on the edge of disappointment.

It's equivalent to asking a hippie on acid if he discovered the enlightening truth of the world on one of his trips. "Tell us about your trip man!"
Sure the trip might give the hippie a different perspective on things but it doesn't have any bearing on reality. Visiting the DMT elves doesn't make DMT elves real even if multiple people experience a similar phenomenon.

Please show me i'm wrong. Show me that someone claiming to hear from god actually learned something new and useful that no person could discover by themselves. Also that there is proof - not some con-artist story.

Funny how god works the same way as psychics. Telling you stuff you already knew. Next itl be using taroit cards or a crystal ball to answer the deluded.

Yep...couldn't agree more FSM scot.

I just realised HBAF hasn't actually contributed to this post. If anyone wants to read his comments he says a lot at http://thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thre...-the-Bible
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12-08-2011, 08:23 AM
RE: Do Christians REALLY believe what they say?
Hey, Mark.

Quote:He gets satisfaction out of rambling...quoting the bible, making it mean whatever he chooses...

The same can be said of you, Mark.

So how about you lay off the bullying.
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