Do Christians deny the speed of light?
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10-07-2014, 02:05 PM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
(10-07-2014 01:46 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-07-2014 01:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  You can't - you are clearly wrong.
Try again.

Young Earth Creationists have claimed that their view has its earliest roots in ancient Judaism, citing, for example, the commentary on Genesis by Ibn Ezra (c. 1089–1164).[4] Shai Cherry of Vanderbilt University notes that modern Jewish theologians have generally rejected such literal interpretations of the written text, and that even Jewish commentators who oppose some aspects of Darwinian thought generally accept scientific evidence that the Earth is much older.

How does Modern Jewish opinion have any bearing on contemporary Christian opinion circa 1600?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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10-07-2014, 02:08 PM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
I have a YEC friend and I put the question to him -why does the universe appear billions of light years across when it could only appear 6,000 light years in radius if the YEC view was true. He said something about the speed of light changing.

I should have nailed him to the cross for that brain fart, but I walk a fine line between wanting to retain a friend and wanting to blast his childish ignorance.

If the speed of light was created in transit, this would be proof the real deity is Loki the trickster, not Yahweh.

If the speed of light changed at a boundary at some distance from the solar system, and they think the universe is that small, then we would be fried from the radiation and torn apart from the gravity from such a compressed universe.

This type of ignorance is so frustrating to deal with. Angry

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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10-07-2014, 02:38 PM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
(10-07-2014 05:22 AM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Well, if a creationist were to agree that the speed of light is accurate in any way what so ever. It would add another contradiction in what they believe. That the world cannot possibly be as young as they think it does, because it takes millions of earth years for the light from all the stars we see to reach our world. We are looking at specs of light that are millions of years or older.
Interesting, but I don't think the argument works. Saying the earth is only 6,000 years old isn't the same as saying the universe is 6,000 years old. As far as I know, YEC's don't claim the universe is only 6,000 years old (correct me if I'm wrong). If that's the case, then the stars could have existed long before the earth and been sending their light in this direction from their beginning. When the earth was eventually created, then it would have intercepted the already existing starlight.

Now that does contradict the part of Genesis where the stars are created, but that could be excused away, for example, with some dust from the creation process that temporarily blocked the lights from the stars. Of course, I believe none of this, but I'm pointing out how easily a YEC could dance around the point.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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10-07-2014, 02:40 PM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
(10-07-2014 02:08 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I have a YEC friend and I put the question to him -why does the universe appear billions of light years across when it could only appear 6,000 light years in radius if the YEC view was true. He said something about the speed of light changing.

I should have nailed him to the cross for that brain fart, but I walk a fine line between wanting to retain a friend and wanting to blast his childish ignorance.

If the speed of light was created in transit, this would be proof the real deity is Loki the trickster, not Yahweh.

If the speed of light changed at a boundary at some distance from the solar system, and they think the universe is that small, then we would be fried from the radiation and torn apart from the gravity from such a compressed universe.

This type of ignorance is so frustrating to deal with. Angry

How very interesting.

anyway, Would like to apologize. Maybe I should not had generalized everyone in the same category like that. That was wrong of me.


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10-07-2014, 02:49 PM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
I've heard creationists say that light from distant galaxies was created en route to Earth... Which is just totally fucking mental.

Facepalm

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10-07-2014, 02:52 PM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
(10-07-2014 02:49 PM)Sam Wrote:  I've heard creationists say that light from distant galaxies was created en route to Earth... Which is just totally fucking mental.

Facepalm

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Last_Thursdayism

Quote:Last Thursdayism (sometimes Last Tuesdayism or Last Wednesdayism) refers to the idea that the universe may have been created last Thursday, but with the physical appearance of being billions of years old. Under this notion, people's memories, history books, fossils, light already on the way from distant stars, and so forth would all have been formed at the time of creation (last Thursday) in a state that causes them to appear to be older. It forms both a philosophical point about how our observations may not match with "reality" and a reductio ad absurdum of some young-Earth creationist ideas; if the world was created 6000 years ago with the appearance of being made billions of years ago, what stops us simply claiming it was made last Thursday in the same manner?
The "Last Thursday" variety is a parody of the omphalos hypothesis, and a relative of Bertrand Russell's equally parodic five minutes ago hypothesis.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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10-07-2014, 02:56 PM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
(10-07-2014 02:49 PM)Sam Wrote:  I've heard creationists say that light from distant galaxies was created en route to Earth... Which is just totally fucking mental.

Facepalm

I dunno, I'd say it's one of the less crazy ideas religion has come up with.

It's certainly superficially convenient, in that it's a way to resolve a lot of inconsistencies by making a completely unfalsifiable excuse for them.

But its implications remain: if such a deed was not strictly intended to deceive us, then why bother? If everything were created exactly so as to give the impression of a self-consistent naturalistic universe, how can it possibly be a bad thing to try to understand it? Since science is still a thing, and still generates the same predictive utility from observation of this "fake" past...

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10-07-2014, 02:57 PM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
(10-07-2014 02:08 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I have a YEC friend and I put the question to him -why does the universe appear billions of light years across when it could only appear 6,000 light years in radius if the YEC view was true. He said something about the speed of light changing.

I should have nailed him to the cross for that brain fart, but I walk a fine line between wanting to retain a friend and wanting to blast his childish ignorance.

If the speed of light was created in transit, this would be proof the real deity is Loki the trickster, not Yahweh.

If the speed of light changed at a boundary at some distance from the solar system, and they think the universe is that small, then we would be fried from the radiation and torn apart from the gravity from such a compressed universe.

This type of ignorance is so frustrating to deal with. Angry

A change in the speed of light would leave a great many traces in all kinds of observable ways. Needless to say we see nothing of the sort.

Attempting any further apologetics dance on that claim gets you back to the complete dead end of the Omphalic hypothesis.
(or the Last Thursday hypothesis)

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10-07-2014, 02:59 PM (This post was last modified: 10-07-2014 03:13 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
They say that Jebus done made the light when it was already on it's way here.
Yup. That pathetic bullshit. Anything so they don't have to admit there is no Easter Bunny.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-07-2014, 03:11 PM (This post was last modified: 10-07-2014 05:52 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
(10-07-2014 02:59 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  They say that Jebus done made the light when it was already on it's way here.
Yup. That pathetic bullshit. Anything so they don't have to admit there is no Easter Bunnry.

There are 3 types of YEC

#1 Too dumb to know how dumb they are. Example Kurt Cameron

This brand of YEC is just plainly unaware of science in any form and has no desire to learn. These are the ones that try to use stuff like Newton's second law of thermodynamics as proof for their magic story. The foot soldiers of the movement.

#2 The True Believers. Example Discovery Institute "Scientists"

This brand of YEC is someone who has seen the evidence yet chooses to believe the fairy tale in spite of this. Various levels of intellectual dishonesty is rampant in this level of the movement. The "Experts" of the movement.

#3 The Conman. Example: Ken Ham, Ray Comfort.

This brand of YEC doesn't care what the truth is they just want to make a buck and they latched onto these suckers as their chosen host. Everything with them leads back to a book deal or some other money making scam nothing is ever done for free. Parasites on the movement but also the main directors.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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