Do Christians deny the speed of light?
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11-07-2014, 11:56 AM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
(11-07-2014 11:26 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  *cough
Sorry cjlr feeling sick.

It's this one that's more relevant.

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11-07-2014, 12:29 PM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
See, you don't account for the fact that god knew one day man had math and telescopes and here sped it all up for the first 5,500 years and then cleaned it all up so it all looks constant. You can't prove he didn't do that.

Ok, MacArthur, return from that!

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11-07-2014, 12:37 PM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
(10-07-2014 04:52 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(10-07-2014 02:38 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Saying the earth is only 6,000 years old isn't the same as saying the universe is 6,000 years old. As far as I know, YEC's don't claim the universe is only 6,000 years old (correct me if I'm wrong).

Actually, I think many (if not most) of them do make that claim. Their whole rationale is that the creation account in Genesis is scientifically and historically accurate, and must be read literally. In Genesis, the earth was created before the stars, and in any event, all of it was created within a 6-day period, and therefore is approximately the same age (within 6 days). The 6000-year age is arrived at by adding up the lifespans of people as given in the Bible, starting with Adam -- and Adam was there only a few days after the creation of everything else. Ergo, the universe is 6000 years old.
Amazing (YEC's). Facepalm Ok, good to know, thanks.

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11-07-2014, 12:44 PM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
(10-07-2014 05:18 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(10-07-2014 05:05 PM)Sam Wrote:  The Jehovah's Witnesses think its about 18,000 years old... Which is a step in the right direction.


I believe the equivalent for how wrong the YEC are is saying the distance from New York to Los Angeles is 40 feet. The JW are saying no it is 120 ft. So yeah a bit better but still horribly wrong.

I know, I was being sarcastic.

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17-08-2014, 11:16 PM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
(10-07-2014 05:34 AM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  lol.

Curious, Even if you move twice the speed of light or 10x or even 100x We are still looking at light that is older then the earth currently is (according to them).

How would you explain this to someone who believes in a young earth? In a way their feeble small minds can comprehend that light cannot reach us from that star over there unless it had traveled for 10 million years etc.

Keep in mind, we are talking about the people who literally believe that daytime and night time existed before a light source or a planet.

Does time dilation solve this riddle? It's been measured that the universe is expanding at a rate Greater than light, hasn't it? The dilation is also an observed fact isn't? So can massive object propelled by dark energy in space faster than the speed of light appear to us to be millions or billions of years old although in reality they have been traveling about 6500 years?

There was a light source before the sun according to genesis. We can measure the after glow of "let there be light " today.

One thing for sure is that the accelerating expansion of the universe confirms and explains Isaiah 13:10 and other verses that predict that the stars will no longer shine or fall away from the sky. How interesting?
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18-08-2014, 06:59 AM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
You must a level 6 cleric since you cast a resurrection spell on this thread....

That being said, the universe is expanding faster than light, the objects in the universe are not moving faster than light. They can't.

This wouldn't have the effect you think it would on our relative perception of their distance/age.

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18-08-2014, 10:19 AM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
Why would this effect not apply or must I be a level 7 to grasp what you are saying? Doesn't time dilation apply to all moving objects in spacetime?
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18-08-2014, 10:23 AM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
(18-08-2014 10:19 AM)drecar Wrote:  Why would this effect not apply or must I be a level 7 to grasp what you are saying? Doesn't time dilation apply to all moving objects in spacetime?

No. Time dilation refers to differences in perceived time for relatively moving observers.

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18-08-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
(17-08-2014 11:16 PM)drecar Wrote:  
(10-07-2014 05:34 AM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  lol.

Curious, Even if you move twice the speed of light or 10x or even 100x We are still looking at light that is older then the earth currently is (according to them).

How would you explain this to someone who believes in a young earth? In a way their feeble small minds can comprehend that light cannot reach us from that star over there unless it had traveled for 10 million years etc.

Keep in mind, we are talking about the people who literally believe that daytime and night time existed before a light source or a planet.

Does time dilation solve this riddle? It's been measured that the universe is expanding at a rate Greater than light, hasn't it? The dilation is also an observed fact isn't? So can massive object propelled by dark energy in space faster than the speed of light appear to us to be millions or billions of years old although in reality they have been traveling about 6500 years?

There was a light source before the sun according to genesis. We can measure the after glow of "let there be light " today.

One thing for sure is that the accelerating expansion of the universe confirms and explains Isaiah 13:10 and other verses that predict that the stars will no longer shine or fall away from the sky. How interesting?

Did you read the thread:
(11-07-2014 11:21 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(11-07-2014 10:55 AM)theophilus Wrote:  You need to also consider the possibility that the speed of light wasn't always the same as it is now. Scientists assume that is has always been the same but there is no way to test that assumption.

Protip: yes there is.

There are all sorts of astronomical observations whose properties would then vary commensurately. The degree of refraction of light through media interface and lensing around gravitational objects would vary. The patterns of radiation emitted by nebulae would vary. The temperature patterns of stars would vary. All these things (and many others) would then necessarily vary with time and therefore with distance as well. All of these things would likewise be very easily observable. We don't observe them. QED.

So no. That excuse is bad and you should feel bad.

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18-08-2014, 12:00 PM
RE: Do Christians deny the speed of light?
(10-07-2014 05:22 AM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  
(10-07-2014 05:19 AM)CiderThinker Wrote:  Not sure I understand the thrust of the question?

Well, if a creationist were to agree that the speed of light is accurate in any way what so ever. It would add another contradiction in what they believe. That the world cannot possibly be as young as they think it does, because it takes millions of earth years for the light from all the stars we see to reach our world. We are looking at specs of light that are millions of years or older.

So, do they think that we have an accurate understanding of how fast light travels?

ahhhh this reminds me of an old hammer I used to beat young earth creationists with, and it goes like this:

Genesis 1:16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.

The stars gave light to the earth immediately, although the closest star, Alpha Centauri, is 4.3 light years away. So the very first star light would have taken 4.3 years to reach earth. The light we see from the Andromeda Galaxy takes 2.2 million years to reach earth, which also debunks the argument that the earth is only 6,000-10,000 years old.

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"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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